Can a woman have a penis?

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

Galaxy

And talking about dresses like a woman or presents like a woman reinforces those deeply old fashioned ideas of how women should be. I dont engage in racist stereotypes because there is racism in society (and always will be) it's the same for gender.

Sorry Galaxy whenever there is an interview/article/picture of a trans woman (man) they are usually presenting as a girly woman, in overly feminine dresses, lots of makeup and what can only be described as girly gesturing.

Some of the more vociferous trans women look like caricatures of women, so overtly sexual complete with their male genitalia outlined by their tight clothing, on show for all…

The above examples are in my opinion damaging to women and young girls on so many levels.

OMG I thought we had passed the stage where we criticised people for the way they dressed. Apparently not. We have just moved on. Can I remind you that it isn't 5 minutes since women were told their dress style showed "They were asking for it".
Now apparently there are "caricatures of women"
At the same time women are castigated for buying in to commercialism and wearing high heels and make up.
I've decided for some of you it is just an opportunity to criticise.
There were teenage girls around yesterday in very tight shorts and skimpy tops. They looked great. But even if they didn't, if that is how they want to dress, just let them.

Glorianny women and girls are of course entitled to dress how they wish and so they should.

I was pointing out that the trans women in the media that I have seen adopt a girly persona which is not really representative of women in the 21st century.

It is what the trans women that I have seen think women are, the only way to know and feel what a women is is to be a natal women.

It is our basic human right to dress how we want, but if I dress up in a panda costume I cannot know what it’s like to feel like to be a panda and it doesn’t make me a panda (other animals are obviously available)

Oh I get it women and girls can dress how they want but transwomen can't.
But I thought all of the people on here supported transwomen. And only castigated those who hadn't had surgery.
Are we now saying that some transwomen can dress how they want but others have to conform somehow? If so how do I know the difference and what's the standard?.

And remember that trans people in television or the media are open publicly about their trans status.

That means you are going to be scrutinising them.

It certainly doesn't mean you can tell in toilets or walking down the street, especially those who have started hormone replacement as young adults

It is what the trans women that I have seen think women are, the only way to know and feel what a women is is to be a natal women
But I don't think or feel as many of the women on here do and I'm a natal woman.
I think you have a perfect right to think and feel as you wish, but I don't think I have much in common with your views on transwomen, so I'm not sure there is commonality of feelings or thought.

I will answer your question when you answer mine. How are women to challenge men in their spaces.

I don't mind sharing the toilets with a transwoman but I'm concerned intact men are using trans as an excuse to access women's spaces and erode female laws and rights. I find the fact a percentage of these young 'transwomen' are calling transphobia if lesbians refuse to have sex with them and their female penis. What has happened to consent?

I have put transwomen in quotations because I am not convinced they are

You are right on that one Glorianny there is absolute no way to feel like a woman. As being a woman isnt a feeling.

If I am sharing spaces with men however they present then I may as well share with all men, in fact boys quite discriminatory when you think about it. Being in a single sex space with Ed Davey or Caitlyn Jenner is the same thing to me.

Here is an interesting interview

www.bbc.com/news/health-38761068.amp

What's interesting to me is that a lot of trans women feel they don't pass if they aren't beautiful

It's so similar yet different to what women face isn't it?

Women don't need to be beautiful to pass as women and neither do trans people.

Yet society often looks at some held up image of a trans women and says "you are too ugly to be a woman"

Does no one realize what an awful message that is to send? That it perpetuates the same stereotypes women struggle with?

No I am not saying they are ugly, I am saying they are Male. I dont think men are ugly.

Galaxy

No I am not saying they are ugly, I am saying they are Male. I dont think men are ugly.

Are you a spokesperson for society?

I don't think so

the looks thing is just pure and simple misogyny but things that women do are always undervalued anyway, like giving birth and nurturing your family or being a care giver when actually these are the most valuable things in a happy and balanced society

I support all human beings.

I am on the side of biology and science both of which evolve with time and research.

I am of the same opinion as Professor Sir Robert Winston who has stated numerous times that our sex is in every single cell in our body and humans cannot change sex.

This may be alien to many posters on this thread but I trust his take on it and as far as I know he is eminently more qualified than any posters here.

Yes brilliant well done. I absolutely think I am a spokesperson for society.

Crikey have you read the sterotypes within that article.

I would be directed to the Male changing rooms and called sir under those rules

JaneJudge

the looks thing is just pure and simple misogyny but things that women do are always undervalued anyway, like giving birth and nurturing your family or being a care giver when actually these are the most valuable things in a happy and balanced society

Some care givers are men, gay couples adopt or have their own biological children through surrogacy. Some men in straight couples stay at home with the children. I know 2 single fathers doing an absolutely fantastic job

Yes caring for children is valuable but it's not something only women can do and while men can't give birth we have happily enabled them to have children without a woman in the child's life at all

Galaxy

Yes brilliant well done. I absolutely think I am a spokesperson for society.

Galaxy, you can speak for me any day, on all manner of subjects

(but not about loo brushes, thank you )

Galaxy

Crikey have you read the sterotypes within that article.

The point is that the same people who denounce stereotypes often expect trans people to conform to them

They also expect lesbian to conform to them

Otherwise no one would be getting a hard time in the loo would they?

Is it people who accept trans people giving them a hard time or is it a certain branch of "feminist"?

VioletSky

JaneJudge

the looks thing is just pure and simple misogyny but things that women do are always undervalued anyway, like giving birth and nurturing your family or being a care giver when actually these are the most valuable things in a happy and balanced society

Some care givers are men, gay couples adopt or have their own biological children through surrogacy. Some men in straight couples stay at home with the children. I know 2 single fathers doing an absolutely fantastic job

Yes caring for children is valuable but it's not something only women can do and while men can't give birth we have happily enabled them to have children without a woman in the child's life at all

I didn't imply men couldn't do it but the vast majority of carers, paid and family/spouse are women and it is not valued and I find that morally wrong.

It's no good lecturing on stereotypes whilst producing an article loaded with them.
Fanny I can't speak for you, didnt I promote you to head of government security the other day, you are way beyond my pay grade now.

VioletSky

glorianny in my circles I am hearing about lesbians being abused in toilets all the time

This is not logical

The only way danger to women has increased in public bathrooms is from other women since this debate started

This is not acceptable. It's not an acceptable side effect of the trans debate

Is this not blaming a whole group (ie women) for the actions of a few?

I thought that was against your moral code.

I used to live next door to a transwoman 25 years ago.

She was very tall, always wore tracksuits and gender neutral clothes, I never saw her in makeup and her hair was ‘meh’; but she totally ‘passed’.

I had absolutely no idea that she was born a man.

As others have said, it’s all about the girliness and stereotypes now.

It’s a performance

GrannyGravy13

I support all human beings.

I am on the side of biology and science both of which evolve with time and research.

I am of the same opinion as Professor Sir Robert Winston who has stated numerous times that our sex is in every single cell in our body and humans cannot change sex.

This may be alien to many posters on this thread but I trust his take on it and as far as I know he is eminently more qualified than any posters here.

When it becomes possible for some scanner or instrument to detect the sex of the cells in my body, and assign me to the right section of any facility. what RW says might have relevance to my everyday life. But at the moment it's as relevant as the composition of the rings of Saturn.

VioletSky

Galaxy

Crikey have you read the sterotypes within that article.

The point is that the same people who denounce stereotypes often expect trans people to conform to them

They also expect lesbian to conform to them

Otherwise no one would be getting a hard time in the loo would they?

Is it people who accept trans people giving them a hard time or is it a certain branch of "feminist"?

I do not expect all and sundry to conform to stereotypes, but there is no point in denying that stereotypes exist.

There were images all over social media not that long ago of a TIM going into court with their high heels, full makeup and eye watering tight leggings on which showed his genitalia without leaving anything to the imagination.

I personally cannot and will not accept them into the sisterhood of women as they are so obviously not one.

Indeed Glorianny Starmer is the first female leader of the labour party.