Lords lay into the governments illegal migration bill

only one good thing about her. Everything she is doing shows just why we need to get rid of this appalling government and stops those with short memories conveniently "forgetting " just what they are doing.

ronib

Ww2 pause, reset, rethink…

Sorry?

Ww2 Anniel had based her comments on observations. Not opinions.

Nope, still not empirical evidence

Ww2 for the purpose of a discussion on GNet, we are not addressing some grand scientific body, it’s sufficiently based on observation as opposed to opinion. Anniel doesn’t need to back it up with statistics… she doesn’t have to cite references. It’s based on her observations.

growstuff

Primrose53

growstuff

Casdon

Germanshepherdsmum

The government has to house the people arriving in boats doesn’t it volver? Isn’t it understandable that those on the streets, in B&Bs, in substandard rented property is going to be angry that these people are given accommodation in hotels? It’s now being said that the former barracks proposed to be used instead of hotels isn’t up to standard. Unsurprisingly as it’s been empty for years, but still a damn sight better than what some have to put up with.

I’m still waiting for some indication as to how we can deal with our own population’s housing and other problems at the same time as looking after people arriving in droves in boats, which you claimed could be achieved. We are accepting everyone who arrives until such time as their applications for asylum are refused, are we not? Housing them, giving them money, doubtless providing healthcare if needed, educating the children…

What percentage of the total migrants arrive ‘in droves on boats’? Last years figures will do.

The Home Office reckons it's usually 6% of all immigrants, but last year was an exception for a number of reasons and it was 11% - still a small percentage of the total.

By the way, I think people are a tad confused. They're lumping together child abusers from an Asian background, most of whom most certainly did not arrive by small boat and some were born in the UK, and those who have arrived on small boats. It seems that any excuse to bash Muslims will do!

The gang rapists of hundreds and hundreds of white girls were mainly second generation Pakistanis.

If there is any confusion it may be because we know nothing at all about those who arrive on boats as they have destroyed their passports and personal papers as directed by their people smugglers. So we have no idea whether they are murderers, rapists, escaped convicts, their age, their ethnicity, nothing. Come to that they have no evidence that they are qualified in any profession or trade so how does that work if they expect to find work?

It's not confusion at all. It's deliberate lumping together of two different groups to manipulate an argument.

And who is lumping them together? not me! I have clearly explained that the gang rapists are nothing to do with the people arriving on boats.

ronib

Ww2 for the purpose of a discussion on GNet, we are not addressing some grand scientific body, it’s sufficiently based on observation as opposed to opinion. Anniel doesn’t need to back it up with statistics… she doesn’t have to cite references. It’s based on her observations.

ronib it was you who described it as empirical evidence.

You, nobody else.

Now you're saying we shouldn't be asking for empirical evidence.

I am lost.

(Incidentally, I used to have a grand scientific body. Its not what it was in my youth, though. )

V3 for goodness sake.. sorry to hear about your body. It happens to the best of us.

No comment about the muddled thinking then?

Okey doke.

Are you going for a record volver3 of how many times you can get scientist or scientific into your posts?😂
ronib you are so right btw this is online chat and demands for evidence are just silly.Anyone who disbelieves a poster can look up facts and data themselves.

It’s perfectly acceptable/fine for individuals to express their observations on GNet - as opposed to theory/theories.

Empirical means based on observation.

Scientific, scientific, scientific...

Scientist scientist, scientist...

In the old days I'd have had a McWhirter at my door with a clipboard.

I could have explained to him that empirical evidence actually has to be evidential, not just supposition. And that calling something "empirical evidence" in order to support it then saying we shouldn't ask for empirical evidence is a bit...odd.

I used the term empirical data.
Ww2 used the term empirical evidence.

Muddled thinking….

ronib

Ww2 for the purpose of a discussion on GNet, we are not addressing some grand scientific body, it’s sufficiently based on observation as opposed to opinion. Anniel doesn’t need to back it up with statistics… she doesn’t have to cite references. It’s based on her observations.

Nope still not empirical evidence.

I could say that I observed those in the polling station were all from a minority background, but it is just that an observation, I couldn’t extrapolate a thing from that observation. It is neither based on empirical evidence nor reliable.

ronib

I used the term empirical data.
Ww2 used the term empirical evidence.

Muddled thinking….

Two distinct things, data and evidence, not to be muddled up.

ronib

I used the term empirical data.
Ww2 used the term empirical evidence.

Muddled thinking….

Aye, so you did. Sorry.

In the pursuit of knowledge, data is a collection of discrete values that convey information, describing quantity, quality, fact, statistics, other basic units of meaning, or simply sequences of symbols that may be further interpreted.

So the observations are not data either.

V3 chill.

No. I won't "chill" thank you.

But overwhelming thanks are due to you for the suggestion.

Qualitative v quantitative

Ohh, are we trying out similar words now, to see how they fit?

If you can't draw a graph from it, its not data. Its unrelated observations.

Therein lies the difference… social science as opposed to pseudoscience?

Oh, very good.

My pseudoscience keeps your lights on, quite literally.

I do enjoy the posts where people try to imply I don't know what I'm talking about. They're a good laugh.

V3 so far this morning I have had an apology, a thank you and a very good from you. I shall quit whilst I am ahead.

I liked volver’s expert analysis based on scientific evidence very much when we were talking about Covid. She talked a good talk. Although she admitted she was not a Covid expert.

Re immigration volver and I veer away from one another. That’s okay, we’re all allowed different opinions. Remember, we’re talking opinions on here. This is an online chat forum mainly frequented by an older female demographic. Other demographics are free to join in.

I’ve recently observed on the media that whilst legal immigration was just over half a million last year, this year, based on current knowledge, legal immigration is projected to be around one million people. The numbers arriving on boats are small fry in comparison. Many of the visas are given to students, who apparently then have the right to bring their dependents with them, and sometimes this can be as many as seven other people. I’m at a loss as to understand how a student can support seven people, or indeed two, three, or four people, but these are the rules. All those perfectly legal arrivals require housing, utilities, education, health care, dentists, use of public transport or road space for a car, and so on. Assuming these figures are correct, I just don’t know how our infrastructure can support this huge influx of people when there is already insufficient housing, our roads are crumbling, our rivers and seas are already being polluted, our schools have insufficient places, the provision of health care is totally overstretched already, and in many areas no one can a dentist willing to treat them. And since so many of these people are students and their dependents, they are not filling the many job vacancies that employers cannot fill. I have no answers and I don’t think any of you does either when the government fails to act.

It’s a rule that needs to be scrapped imo, for all the reasons you state maddy. I fail to see the logic in it.