Thank you Britain for signing up to destroy my home

Dinahmo Well in the UK, families are being destroyed by the cost of living crisis. I am sorry that orangutans are under threat of extinction and from now on, shall try not to buy products containing palm oil. But there has to be a limit on my personal responsibility for the actions of foreign governments.

I don’t accept that a zero tariff dropped from 2 per cent is going to have a significant impact on the lives of orangutans.

It is the responsibility of Malaysia and Indonesia to tackle deforestation with the help of conservation organisations surely?

The International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN) has identified deforestation as the main threat to 85% of all species described in its red list.

Here's a link to its website: www.iucn.org/resources/conservation-tool/iucn-red-list-threatened-species

As an aside - we eat a lot of peanut butter and it is quite easy to buy brands that are free of palm oil.

ronib

The following is taken from Sky News website. There is only one perspective. Forests are being destroyed and as a consequence orangutans are losing their homes and many are losing their lives.

"How does palm oil production affect orangutans?

Forests are bulldozed to make way for palm oil plantations, displacing orangutans who then try to find food in the new plantation areas.

Between 1,000 and 5,000 orangutans are killed each year to protect the crops, the Orangutan Foundation International said.

Indonesia and Malaysia produce more than 85% of the world's palm oil and are the only remaining home to orangutans, with fewer than 118,000 currently surviving, according to the World Wildlife Fund. "

In 2022-2023, Malaysia produced 18.8 million metric tons of palm oil, which is used in about half of supermarket products from shampoo and cosmetics to chocolate, peanut butter and cereals.

Richard North writing today in Turbulent Times - Brexit:conflict of interests points out that

The immediate impact of joining CPTPP is slight as we already trade with 9 of 11 countries. Apparently it’s about the geopolitical dynamic in world trade over next 20 to 30 years.
By the end of this decade, CPTPP will be the largest trading system by a margin.

Well maybe yes and maybe no is my first reaction.
Prior to joining the EU I thought we traded quite well with Australia and NZ so long distances weren’t necessarily a huge problem?

Since we have definitely left the EU, I think it’s about time to take the next steps rather than be stuck in some limbo of indecision and inactivity.

As for the palm oil question, surely it’s upto Malaysia to recognise and take responsibility for its own geography? I don’t think that the UK will have a surge in demand for its product?

Its not just about palm oil, though. is it? Its the whole ridiculousness of trumpeting a trade deal with countries the other side of the world that will have little impact on our economy and in no way is better economically or environmentally than being a member of the biggest trading bloc on the planet that is on our doorstep. Plus - why didn't we have a referendum about whether we wanted to join???

If there wasn’t the demand we wouldn’t need palm oil. It’s awful any species being affected by man. I’m sure we all avoid such foods and buy seasonally, I wish.
However, when people say they ho on holiday to far flung places, do they never think of their carbon footprint.

You think your beloved EU does not import goods that contain palm oil.
Shall asked my family to check in their area.
Personally do not buy anything with palm oil in.
Always choices to be made.

HousePlantQueen

I try very hard to avoid buying any products containing Palm Oil, irrespective of any trade deals, but it can be very difficult. My heart breaks when I see what is being done to this planet; it is rarely to feed people who are starving or who need sustainable crops, but to fill the pockets of those with wealth beyond avarice or to sustain the political careers of those with no concern other than their own.

Hang on, it brings money into the country for Malaysia and gives people much needed jobs ( palm oil.)

MerylStreep

Callistemon
Do want the short answer or the short answer: no and, eh, no.
Sad but true.

Agreed.
The EU imports a lot of palm oil so being in or out of the EU makes no difference.
Palm oil isn’t a bad product and some countries rely on the money it brings in.
If giving aid and advice to Malaysia doesn’t work ( about loss of habitat for orang utans) then what else can be done.

MerylStreep

Callistemon
Do want the short answer or the short answer: no and, eh, no.
Sad but true.

Too true!

HousePlantQueen

I try very hard to avoid buying any products containing Palm Oil, irrespective of any trade deals, but it can be very difficult. My heart breaks when I see what is being done to this planet; it is rarely to feed people who are starving or who need sustainable crops, but to fill the pockets of those with wealth beyond avarice or to sustain the political careers of those with no concern other than their own.

Well said HousePlantQueen!

I try very hard to avoid buying any products containing Palm Oil, irrespective of any trade deals, but it can be very difficult. My heart breaks when I see what is being done to this planet; it is rarely to feed people who are starving or who need sustainable crops, but to fill the pockets of those with wealth beyond avarice or to sustain the political careers of those with no concern other than their own.

ronib

MayBee70 Kemi Badenoch is apparently international trade secretary and her job is to make new trade deals with the global community.

I admit it has been quite slow in getting started but this is where we are as a country. Sky News has a very small clip of an interview with her.

Since most people would agree that the economy of the UK is in poor shape, I would like to know why global trade agreements are such a bad policy?

so what happened to all the trade deals that were just waiting to be signed on 17th June 2016? You know the day when certain people were cheering about the decision to leave the EU.

Callistemon
Do want the short answer or the short answer: no and, eh, no.
Sad but true.

ronib

volver3

This is what I'm trying to say:

The UK doesn't buy 1% of its palm oil from Malaysia, it buys 1% of Malaysia's palm oil. These 2 things are not the same.

Kemi says palm oil is a good product. How? What makes it good?

The tariff situation does not scale; if there are no tariffs at all the we will buy more of it and hence cause more damage.

Just because Kami says it, doesn't make it true.

1 per cent of Malaysia’s palm oil bought by the Uk? Maybe go attack the other 99 per cent if you want to stop deforestation?

That's why I suggested we could have made a difference here, not by attacking the other countries in the group but by holding discussions about sustainability, environmental concerns about deforestation and loss of habitat for orangutans.

However, would the other countries have listened?

Unexpectedly busy with grandchildren just now…. Shall catch up with this thread later on….

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD the U.K. started banning palm oil in certain products in 2020 (Google)

The EU imports 9.4% of Malaysian palm oil on the grounds that it doesn’t add to deforestation/harm the environment according to several articles on Google.

I wonder if the EU just imports a quota or is unlimited.

MaizieD

volver3

Can you explain how this deal improves our economy ronib?

NB - we already have trade deals with all but two of the countries in the bloc, Chile and Malaysia I think. Happy to be proved wrong.

Oh, come on, volver. It's going to improve our GDP by a massive 0.08% over 10 years. Set against the 4% annually we will lose through leaving the EU.

What's not to like?

I read it was actually 0.008% so even better 😄😄

MaizieD the U.K. started banning palm oil in certain products in 2020 (Google)

The EU imports 9.4% of Malaysian palm oil on the grounds that it doesn’t add to deforestation/harm the environment according to several articles on Google.

😁

volver3

Can you explain how this deal improves our economy ronib?

NB - we already have trade deals with all but two of the countries in the bloc, Chile and Malaysia I think. Happy to be proved wrong.

Oh, come on, volver. It's going to improve our GDP by a massive 0.08% over 10 years. Set against the 4% annually we will lose through leaving the EU.

What's not to like?

The EU are giving this trade bloc consideration, - watch how they will use their muscle to get the deal they want and not one that is forced on them because they are economically weaker.

Doesn't dropping the tariff on Malaysian palm oil mean that we might in future buy more of it? Isn't that the point of lowering tariffs in trade agreements; to encourage other countries to buy more of your products?

Another thing about this 'deal' is that it reintroduces those secret courts in which a party to the agreement can take another party to court if that party's laws make it difficult for them to sell their products to them. Wasn't there a huge fuss abut this a few years ago when there was talk of us joining this partnership?

So if the UK banned the use of palm oil in certain products Malaysia could take us to this secret court to get the ban overturned because it harmed their trade with us... And we'd all be none the wiser...

Can you explain how this deal improves our economy ronib?

NB - we already have trade deals with all but two of the countries in the bloc, Chile and Malaysia I think. Happy to be proved wrong.

India, China, Europe and Pakistan are the top 4 importers of palm oil so what I said about the UK leaving the EU was likely wrong.