Pickets and strikes

Seen it all before, worse than now, everything goes in cycles, every government blames the other, another one comes in promising everything, empties the coffers and off we go again, it a not so merry go round. We’ve had Covid, been given the best help we could have had, there’s war in Ukraine, under threat from China and Russia. I’m just glad I live here and lucky I can pay the bills, stretched to breaking point but summers coming and eventually everyone will get what they are striking for as we need them, so just carry on.

Germanshepherdsmum

It’s difficult to see NHS staff laughing on a picket line when you know what the knock-on result of their absence is.

Wonder how all the consultants managed to hold the fort?
I guess an increased demand at gp surgeries for 3 days of the strike.
Delays to delayed operations.
Perhaps longer queues at the food banks where some junior doctors go?

I don’t think it’s so much a question of the actual salary bands of reputedly £37k to £63k for junior doctors but rather the very high cost of living that is hammering a lot of households now. The promise of free 30 hours nursery places has been pushed into the budget for the next government and won’t help young doctors now.

There was a massive peaceful march through London on Wednesday with teachers, civil servants, health workers , rail workers etc. it was hardly reported as the news was all about the budget. No doubt if there had been violence or cars set on fire there would have been some coverage. I’m with the strikers on this one.

That’s correct NotSpaghetti

I expect the headteacher doesn't know until the day Jane

maddyone

The right to strike must never be removed.
I don’t have a problem with picket lines unless there is violence. Peaceful picketing, no problem.
I only ever went on strike for one day. I was called out by the NUT. I didn’t picket, it’s not my scene, but I wouldn’t go against the strike even though I didn’t vote for it. I didn’t vote against either, I abstained.

I'm with you on this maddyone when the NUT called us out on march 40 years ago we were given instructions no violence and to act decorously.
I have since been on a quiet demonstration in the village I lived in and we were more than encouraged by the T.V. crew who arrived to make a lot of noise I refused.
I still believe the right to strike should not be removed. No violence should be allowed and the strikers should look professional as they are representing professions. Not as if they are on a jolly making a lot of noise

I was not. That’s in your imagination.

Germanshepherdsmum

Of course they are Casdon. I used to be one. What’s your point?

You were othering them, consciously or not.

Our youngest is still in upper school and whilst I suport the strikes I wish the headteacher had told people which staff would/wouldn;t be in as it sounded like the whole school was left with a couple of NQT's in charge and maybe just a caretaker

‘The cost of removing the pension cap would be better spent….’. Do you mean the loss of tax revenue, which doesn’t fund expenditure?

Germanshepherdsmum

On the other hand, Maizie, increasing taxes paid by ordinary working people to bridge the gap would probably not be popular in these straitened times. And I don’t need another lecture about taxation not funding expenditure - you know as well as I that that is what any government would claim is required. The electorate may have a high regard for the NHS but their priority is to put food on the table and keep the bailiffs from the door.

There is no 'gap' that has to be funded by taxes. I won't lecture, I'll just repeat, taxation doesn't fund spending. This is true, whether or not you, or others, choose to believe it isn't.

Governments can claim that that is what is required all they like. It doesn't make it true or actually required. If either of those were correct then it could tax the people who can afford to be taxed, instead of giving them a tax bonanza. The 'cost' of removing the pension cap would be better spent raising the wages of the NHS workers and teachers. They would actually spend it into the economy and stimulate economic activity.

Two thirds of GDP comes from consumer spending. I don't think even your overpaid bankers could supply that on their own...

Cutting the capability of the greater part of the population to consume by increasing their taxation is utterly illogical.

As is thinking that businesses are going to invest in an economy where the greater part of the populace has little or no excess money to spend.

I suspect you think that all the 'austerity' we have endured since 2010 was exactly the right thing to do and is in no way to blame for the current state of the UK. You won't find many economists agreeing with you. Not even the IMF...

Of course they are Casdon. I used to be one. What’s your point?

The right to strike must never be removed.
I don’t have a problem with picket lines unless there is violence. Peaceful picketing, no problem.
I only ever went on strike for one day. I was called out by the NUT. I didn’t picket, it’s not my scene, but I wouldn’t go against the strike even though I didn’t vote for it. I didn’t vote against either, I abstained.

Germanshepherdsmum

On the other hand, Maizie, increasing taxes paid by ordinary working people to bridge the gap would probably not be popular in these straitened times. And I don’t need another lecture about taxation not funding expenditure - you know as well as I that that is what any government would claim is required. The electorate may have a high regard for the NHS but their priority is to put food on the table and keep the bailiffs from the door.

I’m so dim, I always thought public sector workers were ordinary working people and were as affected by raising taxes as everybody else. Silly me.

I doubt that parents are paid for the time they are forced to take off either - or maybe they take it from their (far less generous than teachers’) annual leave.

Germanshepherdsmum

I feel sorry for the parents who have had to take time off whilst teachers treat it as a holiday.

They're not paid for strike days. What they do with it is their choice.

Would you rather they wore sackcloth and ashes? I'd certainly be down the playground with my own children on a strike day if I wasn't picketing.

Blondiescot

Germanshepherdsmum

I feel sorry for the parents who have had to take time off whilst teachers treat it as a holiday.

What about us grandparents who have to look after the children because their parents CAN'T take time off? Doesn't stop me supporting the teachers (and everyone else) who feels compelled to take such action in their quest for a fair wage increase. I'm sure there are quite a few on here who would happily see the right to strike withdrawn...

Here here Blondiescot!!!

I support the strikes. You've only got to look at the budget to see where the money is going. To the wealthy again. Perhaps those that don't support public workers are in that upper category and that is why they agree with government policies and attitudes. All very well if you use private healthcare and private schools not to care about public services.

On the other hand, Maizie, increasing taxes paid by ordinary working people to bridge the gap would probably not be popular in these straitened times. And I don’t need another lecture about taxation not funding expenditure - you know as well as I that that is what any government would claim is required. The electorate may have a high regard for the NHS but their priority is to put food on the table and keep the bailiffs from the door.

Whitewavemark2

This probably ought to be in a different thread.

Big question about 5% pay award for nurses and other NHS staff is where 1.5 percentage points of it will come from, which I assume is around £1bn. NHS only budgeted for 3.5%. So will the remaining increment eat into frontline provision? Treasury says no new money being provided

Peston

Treasury lies through its teeth, Wwmk2.

The extraordinary thing is that paying the NHS workers a decent wage would be very popular with the electorate, who, on the whole, have high regard for the work that the NHS is able to do. Whereas tax free bonanzas for the already wealthy aren't.

Tories really don't have much political nous, do they?

Blondiescot

So who would cross a picket line then? I know I wouldn't.

Over the years, in order to get to where I needed to do my work, I have had to cross a couple of picket lines and pass through various demonstrations. To the passer-by, they would generally have appeared to be good natured affairs, with much hooting and tooting, singing and banner waving. On each (quite separate) occasion where I crossed a picket line, I actually had nothing to do with the organisation whose people were on strike, but needed to get into the place it shared with my destination. So far as I was concerned, I was not 'crossing' their line. That made no difference to those strikers who attempted both vocally and physically to intimidate me from doing so. They were not interested in hearing my explanation, and I will never forget the visceral hatred in the face of one particular individual who screamed and spat at me as I passed. By contrast, the various demonstrations I had to negotiate were actually aimed specifically against the nature of my business, but I never experienced the same level of intimidation as I made my way through. So - whilst I absolutely uphold anyone's right to withhold their labour - I'm afraid I cast rather a jaundiced eye at ostensibly merry picket lines.

This probably ought to be in a different thread.

Big question about 5% pay award for nurses and other NHS staff is where 1.5 percentage points of it will come from, which I assume is around £1bn. NHS only budgeted for 3.5%. So will the remaining increment eat into frontline provision? Treasury says no new money being provided

Peston

5% recommended to be accepted by the nurses union. Plus a lump sum to cover last year

That's the start of a very slippery slope...

For some professions, count me in.

Germanshepherdsmum

I feel sorry for the parents who have had to take time off whilst teachers treat it as a holiday.

What about us grandparents who have to look after the children because their parents CAN'T take time off? Doesn't stop me supporting the teachers (and everyone else) who feels compelled to take such action in their quest for a fair wage increase. I'm sure there are quite a few on here who would happily see the right to strike withdrawn...