Gary Lineker's tweet

This thread was, I think, intended to discuss what was said, not the person who said it. Perhaps we should start again with a thread which contains a similar, but unattributed, statement and look at the evidence for and against it.

Though I suspect it won't be thought half as interesting and won't get as much traffic as this one... it's much more fun to shoot the messenger.

Casdon

Rosie51

So say Russia (just an example) offers me £1million (I thought it was a great deal more for Qatar, Joe Lycett quoted £10million) to commentate on some sports thingy. I happily accept this money but deride my hosts for a few minutes during a broadcast by saying they're not the nicest people. Later I decide to lambast some homegrown people for transgressions I decide are akin to those perpetuated in history, but very similar to the values of the hosts who paid me so well. Wow aren't I the golden one, the one with impeccable morals? Happy to accept riches from the most corrupt while believing my hands are clean. Deluded or what?

Or to put it another way- a freelance sports commentator makes a decision to work for payment for the biggest sporting event of the year which is taking place in a country which has a terrible human rights record, which his own country are sending their national team to participate in, said venue was chosen by FIFA and had nothing to do with him.
Same freelance sports commentator, who also has a contract with the BBC for some of his work then has the temerity to criticise the government of his own country for breaking the ECHR and compares their stance to the nazis.

Once the emotive language is removed, it’s clear that he has used his freedom of speech appropriately. His actions regarding accepting payment for working in Qatar have nothing at all to do with his right to speak out about atrocities in his own country.

So he picks and chooses his morality position depending on whether he wants to be paid the big bucks? I love football, watch as much as I'm able (not just the team I support) but made the decision my moral objection to the venue for the World Cup meant I chose not to watch one second of the coverage. The fact my national team were so devoid of conscience as to still go didn't influence me to abandon my principles. Happy to 'take the knee' to display their anti-discrimination principles in England, but equally happy to abandon those principles when it was convenient. Garry Lineker was just one of the figure heads of that self-absorbed, over-paid cohort. "No snowflake in an avalanche ever felt responsible" or "all that is needed for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing" take your pick, both apply. You either have principles or you don't. If money comes into the equation you clearly don't!

Just to say, I wasn’t rude to anyone including growstuff. She just didn’t like my opinion. Holding an opinion is not rude, it’s allowed.

Rosie51

So say Russia (just an example) offers me £1million (I thought it was a great deal more for Qatar, Joe Lycett quoted £10million) to commentate on some sports thingy. I happily accept this money but deride my hosts for a few minutes during a broadcast by saying they're not the nicest people. Later I decide to lambast some homegrown people for transgressions I decide are akin to those perpetuated in history, but very similar to the values of the hosts who paid me so well. Wow aren't I the golden one, the one with impeccable morals? Happy to accept riches from the most corrupt while believing my hands are clean. Deluded or what?

Or to put it another way- a freelance sports commentator makes a decision to work for payment for the biggest sporting event of the year which is taking place in a country which has a terrible human rights record, which his own country are sending their national team to participate in, said venue was chosen by FIFA and had nothing to do with him.
Same freelance sports commentator, who also has a contract with the BBC for some of his work then has the temerity to criticise the government of his own country for breaking the ECHR and compares their stance to the nazis.

Once the emotive language is removed, it’s clear that he has used his freedom of speech appropriately. His actions regarding accepting payment for working in Qatar have nothing at all to do with his right to speak out about atrocities in his own country.

In the UK in the 1930's, similar things were being said by Moseley and not only his everyday followers but some very high up aristocrats - who supported the regime in Germany.

There was strong resistance too: both the "Braverman" words and the "Lineker words" (including my Dad, then a clerk in the co-op - are nothing new.

Its not new: it exists right now through the world, and I think I want to live in a society where hate and division against "others" who are not "us" are contested at every possible opportunity.

Oreo

DaisyAnne I don’t know really, it’s a bit early to think this is about elections, but it’s def something Sunak said he would do something about once he was PM.
Is it the right thing tho? Think it will prove very hard to actually do as well.

I'm sure we all think we know the reason why but it hasn't been possible to make the same scheme in different guises work so far. Some will still believe the far-right of the current government can, but I would guess that number is dwindling as they repeatedly fail.

Those who think the policy is "the right thing" and those who think the idea is appalling will already have decided how to vote. The winner under FPTP is the one who can swing a percentage of floating voters in certain constituencies. The right is aiming at a small number of voters with this legislation, and appears to be prepared to lose other votes to do this. I don't think it will work, but we can only wait and see.

So say Russia (just an example) offers me £1million (I thought it was a great deal more for Qatar, Joe Lycett quoted £10million) to commentate on some sports thingy. I happily accept this money but deride my hosts for a few minutes during a broadcast by saying they're not the nicest people. Later I decide to lambast some homegrown people for transgressions I decide are akin to those perpetuated in history, but very similar to the values of the hosts who paid me so well. Wow aren't I the golden one, the one with impeccable morals? Happy to accept riches from the most corrupt while believing my hands are clean. Deluded or what?

maddyone

growstuff

And some of the "people" are behaving in the same way the "Volk" did in 1930s Germany. The parallels are disturbing.

Oh for goodness sake. Unbelievable!

I have long believed that the same thinking has risen to the surface in the UK, the USA and elsewhere as it did in Germany, the UK, the USA and elsewhere in the 1930s, growstuff.

I wonder what you find Unbelievable! maddyone? Is it history repeating itself as it so often does when people don't learn from it, or is it that more and more are prepared to call this proposal - which itself seems to be likely to be found illegal - for what it is.

growstuff

Callistemon21

Sorry that was to growstuff re threads she doesn't like.

I do walk on by. I suggest people who don't like language being compared with Nazi propaganda walk on by too. I'm sure they could find a bucket of sand somewhere and stick their head in it.

My post was in answer to this one, I thought it had quoted.

No, if they are interested and want to discuss it they may of course, whether they agree or disagree with what Gary Lineker wrote.

It's not up to anyone to suggest they ignore this.

If they find the thread boring, as you say you do Royal threads, that's different.
Why would anyone bother with a subject which bores them?

correct - providing services, halfway down.

DaisyAnne I don’t know really, it’s a bit early to think this is about elections, but it’s def something Sunak said he would do something about once he was PM.
Is it the right thing tho? Think it will prove very hard to actually do as well.

"However, living on the outskirts of an area where the drug dealers are Eastern European as are the pimps running the prostitutes. It is not unreasonable to understand why some folks are worried about who is entering the U.K. and what their reasons are."

This troubles me very greatly - ie the direct link with refugees and the practices made here

There always have been people in our cities exploiting the vulnerable and prodding "Services" sometimes for the rich for hundreds of years. Plenty of home grown criminals!

Surely its very discriminatory to conflate "refugees" with " Eastern European as are the pimps running the prostitutes."
For a start, many aren't coming from Eastern Europe so its tarring all with the same brush.

At the same time, we are crying out for those who we know will work in our care homes, and to get them through the system. This double think I find - well beyond me really.

Or shouting nazi even. Shouting mazi would just be weird.

Yes because that's what we are doing isnt it. Just walking on by, not putting the labour leaflets through the doors in the pouring rain, perhaps slightly more useful than shouting mazi on social media. Perhaps life and people are slightly more nuanced than that.

The best I can do? I won’t really tell you what I think of your kid stuff posts 😂
‘She was rude to me! ‘Boohoo.

Dickens

Apart from the tweet, I think I'm beginning to see the Tory plan for winning back the votes they know they are losing at the moment.

It's going to be a full-on attack on immigrants and 'woke' lefties - in an effort to discredit the Labour party.

And it might work.

I'm reading this thread for the first time; the quote was on page one, so someone may already have said this. If so, my apologies.

Dickens I agree this seems to be Sunak's plan to recover before the election. However, it appears very ill-advised if that is what they are trying to achieve. If they were in opposition, they could start offering claims to change the status quo, but it is their status quo.

A small percentage of voters will lap the fascist rhetoric, but they would have voted for them anyway. I wonder how many who want a change (don't we all - including legal ways to apply and a working administration in the Home Office) will fall for this rehash of previous promises.

I think Keir Starmer got it right. Its not helpful to make this comparison.

I wonder what the Germans think about it

Callistemon21

Sorry that was to growstuff re threads she doesn't like.

I do walk on by. I suggest people who don't like language being compared with Nazi propaganda walk on by too. I'm sure they could find a bucket of sand somewhere and stick their head in it.

Oreo

Maybe stop all the kid stuff growstuff

Hahahaha!

Oh dear! Is that the best you can do?

Maddyone was rude to me. I have been posting about something I studied in some detail at degree level - and that's kidstuff?

Wasn’t that a great old song? Walk on byyyyy😄

Sorry that was to growstuff re threads she doesn't like.

Callistemon21

growstuff

Jews in Poland and Slavs hadn't ever lived in Germany.

The language and rhetoric is remarkably similar. Lineker was right.

🤔
Germans invaded their countries.

True. However, I am have been referring to the language used by the Nazis, which was what Lineker did. It's very similar, as is the way it's being used and the psychology behind it.

No chance.

Just walk on by

Maybe stop all the kid stuff growstuff