Sometimes I am ashamed

Callistemon21
25 years ago we had male and female toilets at work plus one unisex toilet. I don't remember anyone being transgender where I worked but it was there for anyone to use.

When I started teaching, staff toilets were male and female and the ‘emergency’ toilet just off the foyer was for anyone.
In my current school, staff toilets are unisex, but we don’t have to worry about inappropriate behaviour.
That IB is what causes the need for separate toilets and guess which group is responsible for the inappropriate behaviour which causes the need. Behaviour which impacts in ALL trans, not just those with the latest ‘fake’ label.

Aveline

The transwoman I saw recently could not have tried harder to dress quietly and appropriately for a middle aged woman. Absolutely no attention seeking. She was trying quite painfully hard to fit in as a woman in her fifties.

That's fine.
But we're talking about how the current situation favours abusive men, with one glaring recent example.

Here's further info about him.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/beauty-students-asked-strip-front-29063499?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

Clearly, everyone involved knew he is male but believed they had to 'be kind' by pretending he is a woman.

GrannyGravy13

Sorry my view is that a transwomen will always be a trans and therefore not have access to women only spaces.

By all means have mixed changing rooms/spaces for those who want them which would accommodate trans folk and leave women our own spaces.

This applies to transmen also, some might not feel comfortable in male changing rooms/spaces, a mixed space option could be the solution.

I agree, GrannyGravy

Is it so difficult to do this?

25 years ago we had male and female toilets at work plus one unisex toilet. I don't remember anyone being transgender where I worked but it was there for anyone to use.

The transwoman I saw recently could not have tried harder to dress quietly and appropriately for a middle aged woman. Absolutely no attention seeking. She was trying quite painfully hard to fit in as a woman in her fifties.

Not to mention having his appendage clearly on show.

M0nica

Are people seriously suggesting that because a man does not look 'girly' in his pre-transition life, that his transition cannot be genuine?

The above is NOT a comment on this specific case, but the overall concept that only 'girly' men transition. How you look is an accident of nature, not of gender.

No, of course not.

But are you seriously suggesting that of all the looks a man who says he has wanted to be a woman since the age of four could have chosen he would have gone for that one?

He couldn't change his face, but a shaven head and tattooed neck/face are not usually signifiers of femininity, are they?

And yes, the idea that TRAs and their supporters are deeply misogynist is at the very heart of the concerns of fact-based/gender critical feminists' concerns.

Here is what Sex Matters says about the UK government response -

"The UK government response is over six weeks late and answers a different question from the one we are asking. It focuses on the operation of single-sex services. Our petition does not specifically mention single-sex spaces or services but concerns the definition of sex in the Equality Act."

Sex Matters full comment here -

sex-matters.org/posts/updates/sex-in-the-equality-act/?mc_cid=45f88555e3&mc_eid=2126f92a88

After a long delay, the UK government has responded to the Equality Act petition linked above.

.....................................................
The Government's response
Under the Equality Act 2010, providers are already able to restrict the use of spaces/services on the basis of sex and/or gender reassignment where justified. Further clarification is not necessary.

The Equality Act 2010 provides protection against discrimination, harassment and victimisation across a number of grounds, including sex. We are committed to upholding Britain’s long-standing record of protecting the rights of individuals against unlawful discrimination.

The Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) have published guidance on the existing legislation which provides much needed clarity to those offering single-sex spaces. It does not change the legal position or the law.

As the guidance makes clear, it is entirely acceptable for providers of single-sex services to take account of the biological sex of their service users. Where it is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim, the Equality Act 2010 is clear that service providers can exclude, modify or limit access for transgender people, even where they have a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC). This includes where a service provider has concerns that the presence of individuals who are biologically male could prevent them from meeting their aims, such as in the example below, included in the guidance:

“A group counselling session is provided for female victims of sexual assault. The organisers do not allow trans women to attend as they judge that the clients who attend the group session are likely to be traumatised by the presence of a person who is biologically male.”

It is important that providers of single-sex services are clear that biological sex can be taken into consideration when providing services.

The Government is committed to maintaining the safeguards that allow organisations to provide single-sex spaces. It is important that the principle of being able to operate spaces reserved for women and girls is maintained. Government is committed to tackling harassment and abusive behaviours by all individuals, and ensuring single-sex spaces are safe for those using them.

The response to this petition was provided by the Cabinet Office.
................................................

M0nica

Are people seriously suggesting that because a man does not look 'girly' in his pre-transition life, that his transition cannot be genuine?

The above is NOT a comment on this specific case, but the overall concept that only 'girly' men transition. How you look is an accident of nature, not of gender.

No, I was being flippant.

I AM seriously suggesting that no-one can change sex and that 'transition' should not be treated as if the person is genuinely the opposite sex, or no sex at all.

I'm also seriously suggesting that the Gender Recognition Act should be repealed - Petition here :
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/628382

Or, at the very least, that the Equality Act should be clear about what it means by the terms 'gender' and 'sex' + Petition here :
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/623243

He’s a thug and, above all, a coward.

That’s exactly how I feel Dickens another way for misogynists to keep women in their place

Dickens•+
What I'm suggesting, is that it is misogynistic males who are the troublemakers, not the trans community in general. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that TRAs are misogynists who have found another way to try to control women and to reduce the power that we increasingly have managed to wrestle from men.

Excellently put!
I’ve believed that for a long time.

In addition, the misogynistic males who are either TW or TRA, have damaged the public perception of ALL trans behaviour.

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head, Dickens

GrannyGravy13

Sorry my view is that a transwomen will always be a trans and therefore not have access to women only spaces.

By all means have mixed changing rooms/spaces for those who want them which would accommodate trans folk and leave women our own spaces.

This applies to transmen also, some might not feel comfortable in male changing rooms/spaces, a mixed space option could be the solution.

It's possible I don't 'keep-up' with the news - or equally possible that the news is 'slanted', however I have not seen trans men raging against natal men for perceived trans-phobia.

Trans men appear to be less vociferous and demanding. Women identifying as men do not seem to delineate what manhood should be - do they insist that they are men in the same way that trans women with intact male bodies demand to be accepted as women? Or do they, and the media hasn't reported on it?

What I'm suggesting, is that it is misogynistic males who are the troublemakers, not the trans community in general. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that TRAs are misogynists who have found another way to try to control women and to reduce the power that we increasingly have managed to wrestle from men.

GrannyGravy13

Sorry my view is that a transwomen will always be a trans and therefore not have access to women only spaces.

By all means have mixed changing rooms/spaces for those who want them which would accommodate trans folk and leave women our own spaces.

This applies to transmen also, some might not feel comfortable in male changing rooms/spaces, a mixed space option could be the solution.

Yes

Galaxy

Although there are I think issues about someone obviously displaying their penis, I view it in a very similar way to flashing, and the links between flashing and violent crime seem to be quite clear.

Absolutely is a power trip for misogynists.

Although there are I think issues about someone obviously displaying their penis, I view it in a very similar way to flashing, and the links between flashing and violent crime seem to be quite clear.

Galaxy

No I am suggesting that you cant change sex. All transwomen are Male. How they look is irrelevant.

This!

Women are not just men with their penis removed, that is such a regressive view. It's like something from the Victorian time.

I do wish people in the media wouldn't keep confusing gender with sex.

Skeletons will always be either male or female, specifically the pelvis, whatever other surgery has been performed.

No I am suggesting that you cant change sex. All transwomen are Male. How they look is irrelevant.

Sorry, that was to M0nica.

No. I think the genuine trans, regardless of how they look as a man, want to fit in with their new ‘authentic self’.
Even this rapist has donned a wig and had pictures taken which don’t show his tat.

Sorry my view is that a transwomen will always be a trans and therefore not have access to women only spaces.

By all means have mixed changing rooms/spaces for those who want them which would accommodate trans folk and leave women our own spaces.

This applies to transmen also, some might not feel comfortable in male changing rooms/spaces, a mixed space option could be the solution.

Are people seriously suggesting that because a man does not look 'girly' in his pre-transition life, that his transition cannot be genuine?

The above is NOT a comment on this specific case, but the overall concept that only 'girly' men transition. How you look is an accident of nature, not of gender.