At last ... a plan. Gordon Brown's constitutional review revealed

welshwife and many freeloaders like Michelle Mone who is £29 million in profit from the useless PPE she "supplied" and who said on Twitter to an MP who was angry about it that he was just a uselss MP who could be voted out and SHE was there for life....Is THAT the kind of governance you like?.She's not the only freeloader in the HOL ,There are many who sign in and have a sleep at £300+ a DAY its nice work if you can get it
.One who I personally know boasts it takes his wife and him on at least 3 "quality" cruises a year and all he needs is to sign in ...not stay and not speak on anything .

A good start would be to make the Labour Party democratic and promote the most popular motion at this year'as Labour Party conference - to change our system for electing MPs from First Past The Post to Proportional Representation/.

If Keir Starmer will not prioritise this he is ignoring the will of his party members and showing that he is not any kind of a democrat.

varian

A good start would be to make the Labour Party democratic and promote the most popular motion at this year'as Labour Party conference - to change our system for electing MPs from First Past The Post to Proportional Representation/.

If Keir Starmer will not prioritise this he is ignoring the will of his party members and showing that he is not any kind of a democrat.

varian you say the same at every possible opportunity, but it is a Lib Dem policy, not a Labour policy - and it is not the most urgent or important thing on the agenda of the next government when the country is in the current state. It’s nothing to do with Keir Starmer being a democratic politician, it simply isn’t the top of the list.

Constitutional reform.

Maybe that will be Starmers Waterloo it is going to be very contentious, the right wing media are going to have a field day with horror scenarios.

Katie59

Constitutional reform.

Maybe that will be Starmers Waterloo it is going to be very contentious, the right wing media are going to have a field day with horror scenarios.

I think if you read the report, that the voters are all for it, Katie59. The right wing media can probably scream all they like, but with no effect.

Welshwife

If it is an elected second chamber who is likely to put themselves forward and how long would they serve? It is a very big thing to change it and needs a lot of thought and consultation.
The Lords may well not be perfect but it is made up of many experienced politicians and once there they can be honest as there is no worry about losing their seats etc. We do see that elected members of the HoC vote and behave in certain ways as they are worried about losing their jobs at the next election.
Not easy to find a good balanced solution.

It's been done before, Welshwife. Blair achieved it within 2 years of being elected. I don't think anyone outside the Lords and Westminster was really bothered.

The sadness is that the power to make life peers has been shamelessly abused in the past, because actually appointing some members of the 2nd chamber on merit seems like a reasonable thing to do. I'd like to see a mix of elected and appointed.

What is the point of the Labour Party conference taking votes then ignoring the result ?

The motion to support a change to PR was strongly supported by both unions and constituency representatives.

Does the LP leadership just ignore the will of the party members because the autocratic party leader is the only one who has a say in policy? If so why bother with conference motions?

It seems to me that we live in a sham democracy where a government can be elected by a minority of votes and the main opposition party will not challenge this because it is not a truly democratic party.

www.newstatesman.com/quickfire/2022/10/political-suicide-for-labour
For you varian.
Labour voters, and potential Labour voters are not only the party members and TUs, and if you want proportional representation to happen in the next parliament, the electorate needs to be persuaded to vote Liberal Democrat to deliver it.

An elected second chamber would be a big step forward, and is a higher priority.

What this article is suggesting is that the powers that be in the Labour Party have no interest in democracy or darkness only power and so are no better than the Tories.

No wonder this country is doing so badly compared to almost every democratic country.

We need to elect people who put the country first and believe in every voter having an equal say.

No interest in democracy or fairness.

We've had too much darkness!

Urmstongran

There's never been a problem that Gordon Brown's pondering couldn't make worse...

Urmstongran
I admit I was annoyed with him for taxing pension investments and for selling off our gold reserves but I do have a soft spot for him, he speaks more sense now than when he was in government.

varian

What this article is suggesting is that the powers that be in the Labour Party have no interest in democracy or darkness only power and so are no better than the Tories.

No wonder this country is doing so badly compared to almost every democratic country.

We need to elect people who put the country first and believe in every voter having an equal say.

I think that’s how you’re reading it, not what it’s saying. We aren’t going to agree on the relative priority of PR compared with the other policy issues the Labour Party are giving a higher priority, which to my mind are more urgent, but I’m interested to know why you think if it’s the highest priority to the electorate, the Lib Dems haven’t succeeded in winning over the electorate to vote for them, and PR?

MaizieD

Katie59

Constitutional reform.

Maybe that will be Starmers Waterloo it is going to be very contentious, the right wing media are going to have a field day with horror scenarios.

I think if you read the report, that the voters are all for it, Katie59. The right wing media can probably scream all they like, but with no effect.

In recent elections voters have done what the media has told them, like lemmings.

You know that!.

In the next election the priority should be to vote for whichever candidate is best placed to defeat the Tory in each onstituency. In many aces that means voting Labour. In other places LibDem.

That is what we have to do under FPTP. It means that as ever voters in 'safe seats' have no real say and most votes will be wasted.

This country will continue to decline unless we make each vote count by electing MPs by proportion representation. It is time for the UK to become a democracy.

In the next election the priority should be to vote for whichever candidate is best placed to defeat the Tory in each constituency. In many aces that means voting Labour. In other places LibDem.

Not where I am.

Katie59

MaizieD

Katie59

Constitutional reform.

Maybe that will be Starmers Waterloo it is going to be very contentious, the right wing media are going to have a field day with horror scenarios.

I think if you read the report, that the voters are all for it, Katie59. The right wing media can probably scream all they like, but with no effect.

In recent elections voters have done what the media has told them, like lemmings.

You know that!.

I haven't noticed the RW media telling voters to vote Labour or Lib Dem, but blow me, Labour is riding high in the polls and both Labour & the Lib Dems are winning by elections handsomely.

I can't see constitutional change having a populist, pro tory, angle for the media to exploit. In fact, I think that many of the proposals I've seen so far would be welcomed by most voters if they even thought about them (which I don't think most voters do...).

The tory party has fallen so far into the mire that I don't think anything the RW media says is going to pull them out of it...

GrannyGravy13

I have listened to Mr Starmer today, the House of Lords does need reforming I agree.

The one thing that caught my ear in a worrying way was the devolving of more powers to local authorities. Is this a get out of jail card for a Labour Government to say it wasn’t me guv it was them ?

I don't think that is the intention GrannyGravy. I don't speak as someone from the left, but I can see some interesting points which will go forward for discussion.

First of all, I will admit I have always been in favour of greater federalisation. When people voted for Brexit and said they "wanted our sovereignty back", it wasn't the EU that was the problem; it was our centralised government. All that has happened is that the centralised government has taken even more power to itself.

Those people wanted to "be" West Yorkshire, West of England, Tees Valley, etc. Many more areas also want a chance to thrive by doing what they do best, by being themselves and not because they are allowed to enter a "They shoot horses don't they" style competition to see, if this time, they can be the town London will allow to "level up" by giving them a small pot of money and no autonomy.

As far as I can see, they are talking of devolving to areas larger than local authorities. Areas more like Greater Manchester and the West Midlands Combined Authority.

PR should be a priority. Without it the votes of more than 50% of the electorate will not count. I lived in Suffolk Coastal (current incumbent the dreadful Therese Coffey) for 20 years and sometimes tried tactical voting but could never get rid of the Tories. Being a largely rural area I suspect that the agricultural workers voted the same way as their masters.

Obviously the economy, wages, employment and renationalisation are more important to peoples' living standards but developing a system of PR would not affect those.

PR, Devolution to Regions, Abolish the House of Lords, will be seen as the Labour Party re-engineering the UK to suit them. I dont doubt Labour voters like the idea of more influence, these changes are going to be a the major policy change in the next GE, in the way Brexit was in the last.

So although I would like Labour to win the next GE I’m not at all sure this will help, it certainly won’t help the economy, major reorganization never does.

Well I think most people found Brown’s speech boring. There wasn’t much applause from the audience. It was a very muted polite reception on tv news.

Good things - more power for Scotland in international bodies, maybe mayors for Scotland. Haven't quite decided on the impact of that yet.

Bad things - thinking that English regions should get the same kind of devolution Scotland has. And the fact that what's proposed is rather less than was on offer in the 2019 election or "the Vow".

If all the proposals Brown has made come to pass, I think it will be a step in the right direction for Scotland. It could slow down the independence movement. But it will just be slowed down. Eventually it will come back and independence will be on the cards again, because we want independence, not indulgence and patting on the head.

If Labour do win without an overall majority SNP will demand another independance vote which they will likely win, more power will not be enough.
It’s very difficult for Starmer which is why he is not enthusiastic about constitutional change.

If Starmer think H of L reform (and tinkering with public schools VAT) is the stuff of doorstep electioneering in the next GE he should think again. Most ordinary folk are far more concerned about health, the cost of living and the awful results of Brexit.

OK, one more post about Scotland.

If the SNP demand another independence vote it is because they have a mandate to do so.

I do not think that any vote will go for Independence in the next few years.

More power kindly given by the partner which thinks it is the dominant one isn't enough, that's right. Independence is the goal. As it should be for any country worth its salt.

We're not a "partner" * Volver *WE'RE A COLONY .Partners can leave without permission as the UK did from the EU

.We're being held hostage and the sad thing is that MOST of the so called UK thinks WE are being unreasonable .

No other colony had to ask to leave ,they just did.

Over 60 of them!
Its the biggest celebrated holiday in the world Independence from the UK and guess what NOT ONE of those countries have asked to be taken back into the fold. Democracy is dead and buried as far as WM is concerned