So, what does the Tory party represent?

Starmer wants austerity same speech as George Osbourne who blamed it on banking crisis its come full circle.

Tories believe in funding the already rich, not helping the people.

I have many reservations about Starmer
Factional no socialists
Supports Israel an apartheid state.
Expels Jews who show support for Palestine
The way he runs the party

He won't change much Establishment
But there may be a few surprises.

But anything better than the Tories.
People want change radical change.

Just my opinion

Why did Tom Watson have a peerage Starmer said that he's done a lot for Labour Party.

With regard to Sunak, it can be expected, that provided he does not go completely off piste in the budget, that he will enjoy a honeymoon period, however, his stated intention of cuts to “balance” the government debt shows that he has learnt nothing from the Tories past decade of stagnant growth and growing inequality. It wont work and 2 years will be sufficient to show the public what he is made of, if they haven’t t learned from his past budgets.

The thing that made him relatively popular was the furlough scheme etc, but there was nothing clever about that - every single chancellor would have done the same - no choice unless they wanted to crash the economy.

Perhaps he doesn’t care as long as the wealthy prosper?

Grantanow

To counter the Tories I think Labour should make much more about aspiration, getting on in life, supporting small business owners and innovators. The working class has been declining in numbers since the 1920s and Labour has to gain support from the new middle classes, managers, technocrats and meritocrats.

TBH I think that they are.

Apparently Starmer is being invited to speak by myriad businesses and they are contacting him in high numbers.

To counter the Tories I think Labour should make much more about aspiration, getting on in life, supporting small business owners and innovators. The working class has been declining in numbers since the 1920s and Labour has to gain support from the new middle classes, managers, technocrats and meritocrats.

^ don't think that labour voters are the woke, anti- free speech, big state, brexit embracing people that the current party suggests either.^

That's not how I see the Labour party at all.

But then, the description is so vague. What exactly is 'big state'? What is 'woke'? How is the LP 'anti free speech'? And, as two thirds of LP voters voted for Remain, I don't see it as 'brexit embracing' either.

A few of its voters might be seen as any one, or all of those vague things, but a party can't be judged by a few of its voters.. As the article I linked to suggests, the LP MPs' values mesh better with their voters' values than do the tory MPs' with their voters.

What seems to be happening is the vast majority of people are politically "homeless" now. The two main parties are so far removed from the needs, wants and beliefs of their traditional supporters. I don't believe that tory voters are uncaring, money grabbing, "I'm all right Jack and sod everyone else" people that the parliamentary party portray. I don't think that labour voters are the woke, anti- free speech, big state, brexit embracing people that the current party suggests either.
How did this happen? How does anyone find their political "home" nowadays.

Very true, Luckygirl

My father in law was the same with labour. He actually said if a donkey turned up with a red rosette it would get his vote.

That was many years ago
I think that has changed in recent years and people are less likely to consistently vote for the same party.

What makes my heart sink are the vox pops that are broadcast where Tory voters say that the government have messed up but they will still vote for them because they always have. How pitiful is that?

My Tory MP wrote a book called Caring Conservatism - he cannot see the irony of this.

Maizie I think they do realise how far apart from the ruling Conservatives they are. The majority of people want good state schools for their children/grandchildren, use the NHS for most of their healthcare needs and they want police on their streets, etc. The vast majority of people aren't stinking rich. I saw an interview with Rory Stewart a few days ago. He said the Tories he thought he was standing for just want a quiet life and a reluctant to change anything. Many of them are the stereotypical volunteers for charities. I don't believe that all Tories are hard-hearted and money-grabbing. I take issue with the attitudes of some of them, but I don't think they're bad people. I know some die-hard Tories who are horrified by the antics of the ERG and what's been happening over the last few years.

maizie

What is interesting is that tory voters appear to be far more centrist/ public services oriented than the current right wing, small state, parliamentary party.

I think that there is still a rump of the Tory party who think like that.

It is just that groups like the ERG have loud mouths and are organised sufficiently to pressurise the leadership towards their aims - like Brexit.

It is a worry that Sunak will swing back to austerity, which is the very opposite to what the country needs.

Found it now.

This, from 2020

unherd.com/thepost/how-conservatives-mps-are-different-from-their-voters/

Whitewavemark2

growstuff

Devil's advocate here.

The Tories have hi-jacked the meritocracy/aspiration narrative. They claim that Labour want to keep people poor by paying them benefits, whereas they can help people lift themselves out of poverty by hard work.

The two aren’t mutually exclusive though.

Yes, provide a safety net for those falling on hard times, but provide the means - like a good education, help for small businesses etc. - for those aspiring to do better - all recognised by the LP.

The tory party has been running that line for almost as long as I can remember.

It's a weary old chestnut that's been continually trotted out on this forum. Evidence to the contrary falls on deaf ears.. I wouldn't worry about it.

What is interesting is that tory voters appear to be far more centrist/ public services oriented than the current right wing, small state, parliamentary party. We've seen evidence of that on this forum, too, where some tory voters show care and concern for the disadvantaged in much the same way as do Labour voters. I often wonder if they realise how very far apart their views are from those of the current governing party.

growstuff

Devil's advocate here.

The Tories have hi-jacked the meritocracy/aspiration narrative. They claim that Labour want to keep people poor by paying them benefits, whereas they can help people lift themselves out of poverty by hard work.

The two aren’t mutually exclusive though.

Yes, provide a safety net for those falling on hard times, but provide the means - like a good education, help for small businesses etc. - for those aspiring to do better - all recognised by the LP.

I don't think it's just a Scottish thing - it's an Essex thing too.

Devil's advocate here.

The Tories have hi-jacked the meritocracy/aspiration narrative. They claim that Labour want to keep people poor by paying them benefits, whereas they can help people lift themselves out of poverty by hard work.

They were talking about this on the radio yesterday. I postd this paragraph on the wrong thread, but I think it fits here|:

I heard Justine Greening on the radio today saying she was a Conservative because they were the party who made her younger self feel that people like her could make something of themselves if they worked hard. Well I always thought that, I always thought I could make something of myself if I worked hard, but I never thought that was a Tory thing. Apologies in advance, but I thought it was a Scottish thing. Really. Maybe that's why the Tories do so badly up here!!

I think they really do stand for the 'small state'. People keeping what they earn and the result 'trickling down' via their purchasing power. Otherwise known as Every man for himself and devil take...

If the economy improves it will just mean larger bonuses and tax cuts.