First major U-turn

I see Braverman is intent on breaking international law.

Not a good look coming from a lawyer. How will she ever be able to practice?

Gordon Brown

@GordonBrown
·
20m
It’s all there in Britannia Unchained, co-authored by Liz Truss and Kwarteng: the pound can collapse, borrowing and mortgages can soar, pensioners can freeze, kids can go hungry, as long as the economy is ripe for venture capitalists freed from regulation and, ideally, tax.

???

I found the perfect illustration of Truss and Kwarteng's economic theory.

MayBee70

Dickens

Pammie1

For context - if the proposed cut to the 45p rate had gone ahead , someone earning £1m a year would be around £43000 a year better off. For someone like me, at the bottom end, taking 1p in the £ off the basic rate would give me an extra £120 a year. Not much trickles down does it ?

It is so utterly immoral that I truly don't know how LT and KK thought they could get away with it. Truss rejected the idea of further "handouts" as a way of helping those most affected by the cost-of-living crisis - the very language she used indicates her contempt for those who are struggling.

She talked about growing the economy so that there would also be more money to pay for front-line public services. That is so mealy-mouthed that it makes me inwardly rage. Since when did a libertarian, free-market idealogue care about public services?

And if she uses the word "deliver" or the mantra "delivering to the British people" one more time, I might go out and howl under the moon...

I think the ‘in’ word at the moment is ‘diversion’.

I’ve got that wrong, it’s distraction isn’t it…

It is so utterly immoral that I truly don't know how LT and KK thought they could get away with it. Dickens Mon 03-Oct-22 19:49:31

Just as we see daily that some on here don't think other people will have fundamental beliefs that differ from theirs, I would imagine that LT and KK thought that more people think like them than actually do. The false-consensus effect added to our general bias to back our own view with confirmatory information will make any of us overestimate how much our view is shared ... but now they are aware.

Dickens

Pammie1

For context - if the proposed cut to the 45p rate had gone ahead , someone earning £1m a year would be around £43000 a year better off. For someone like me, at the bottom end, taking 1p in the £ off the basic rate would give me an extra £120 a year. Not much trickles down does it ?

It is so utterly immoral that I truly don't know how LT and KK thought they could get away with it. Truss rejected the idea of further "handouts" as a way of helping those most affected by the cost-of-living crisis - the very language she used indicates her contempt for those who are struggling.

She talked about growing the economy so that there would also be more money to pay for front-line public services. That is so mealy-mouthed that it makes me inwardly rage. Since when did a libertarian, free-market idealogue care about public services?

And if she uses the word "deliver" or the mantra "delivering to the British people" one more time, I might go out and howl under the moon...

I think the ‘in’ word at the moment is ‘diversion’.

But they are not the "idiots" some suggest. I don't find them particularly likeable (others may), nor do I agree with their views of the world and the politics they believe in, encouraged by that view. However, you underestimate them at your peril if what you want is them gone.

I hope those from the far-left enjoy their hatefest. Still, it might be worth remembering that these politicians have managed to stay in power for 12 years. Who knows what they will do next? Michael Gove hinted that he could lead a new Tory rebellion on uprating benefits in line with inflation – what's he up to?

And I wouldn't under-rate Starmer either. Although, sneering seems to be the order of the day. I hope the ERGTories go, but I would not like to place any bets on anyone today.

?‍♀️

Whitewavemark2

There was a lot of language used by all the Tories being interviewed talking about the need to make our public services “world class etc, when it is clear from their announcements that our public services which is already on its knees are going to suffer further severe cuts.

They do it quite deliberately, misleading the public and frankly lying

I have stopped believing anything - it is all spin. I feel very sad about the superficial world we now live in - all surface gloss and no substance. And they just go on getting away with it.

Do they think we are fools and are taken in by all this?

Another u-turn - mini this time.

Kwarteng is going to bring forward the OBR forecast, not leave it until 23 Nov.

There was a lot of language used by all the Tories being interviewed talking about the need to make our public services “world class etc, when it is clear from their announcements that our public services which is already on its knees are going to suffer further severe cuts.

They do it quite deliberately, misleading the public and frankly lying

Maizie because the scientists, technologists, world class university departments and research centres are in the UK and as well as producing highly qualified British scientists, they are so good the best scientists and technologist from other countries want to come here to study and do research

I'm afraid that's not true any more.

Since Brexit, the attractiveness of our research institutions has diminished considerably because they cannot partner so easily with overseas organisations. Partnerships usually rely on multi-national collaborations and many of our collaborations were possible because of agreements in place due to our membership of the EU - with both EU and non-EU countries.

"Financial stability" is not really relevant.

Pammie1

For context - if the proposed cut to the 45p rate had gone ahead , someone earning £1m a year would be around £43000 a year better off. For someone like me, at the bottom end, taking 1p in the £ off the basic rate would give me an extra £120 a year. Not much trickles down does it ?

It is so utterly immoral that I truly don't know how LT and KK thought they could get away with it. Truss rejected the idea of further "handouts" as a way of helping those most affected by the cost-of-living crisis - the very language she used indicates her contempt for those who are struggling.

She talked about growing the economy so that there would also be more money to pay for front-line public services. That is so mealy-mouthed that it makes me inwardly rage. Since when did a libertarian, free-market idealogue care about public services?

And if she uses the word "deliver" or the mantra "delivering to the British people" one more time, I might go out and howl under the moon...

Maizie because the scientists, technologists, world class university departments and research centres are in the UK and as well as producing highly qualified British scientists, they are so good the best scientists and technologist from other countries want to come here to study and do research,

The easiest way to make use of their work and have the scientists close by to advise and undertake commissioned work, is to set up your business where all these people are.

It is much easier for an entrepreneur to set up a business where there is a large number of highly qualified people, than to go to all the expense of trying to set up a minihub in another country.

While many people do go and study and work abroad, it is often only for a few years and it is to other centres of excellence in their discipline; big North American or European universities and research centres.

Most people prefer to stay in the countries they were born and brought up in and where friends and family are. They are not going to move away from world class institutions, with so many fellow scientists round them to go to some small minihub thousands of miles away, which cannot compete with where they are, and could fail and leave them marooned and without help in another country.

Agreed MayBe. I know what you mean - I’m starting to feel paranoid about the whole thing. Feels like there’s some sort of plotting going on behind closed Westminster doors; some evil master plan that’s coming to fruition. Our own government plotting against us, the ordinary people. It’s a very uncomfortable feeling. I really worry about the society that my grandchildren will grow up in - unequal; money oriented; unkind; uncaring; back-stabbing; dishonest. Our only hope is that the decent people will rise to the top.

LizzieDrip

*The country has been scammed by Truss and Kwarteng. Just in time for the party conference. Look out for the standing ovation for Kwarteng today - the chancellor who ‘gets it’ and ‘listens’* My post of 8.57 this morning!

Don’t mean to say I told you so but I’ve just watched Kwarteng’s speech at the Tory conference - applause, nodding dogs, standing ovation. What a sham!

He didn’t apologise for the turmoil he cast the country into last week. Just made a joke of it. Then, interestingly, referred to the plan from 10 years ago instead of 10 days. Freudian slip perhaps. Was he referring to the plans in Britannia Unchained? Then went on to talk about deregulating everything ( cheers from the audience) and taking away the right to strike. If we don’t get rid of this government we’re in big trouble. Am I paranoid in thinking it’s still part of Save Big Dog in that Johnson’s supporters want it to be Truss that brings about the downfall of the party ( which was crumbling anyway) and not Truss? How on earth did we get to this?

At the moment Maizie financial instability will chase them away,

I do realise that, MOnica.

Wouldn't it be cheaper for them to just attract all those scientists and engineers to their own countries, with good wages and relocation costs rather than set up an enterprise in the UK?

How are they going to make their money in the UK?

I'm not seeing anything that will improve the prospects of 'ordinary' folk here.

At the moment Maizie financial instability will chase them away, but under normal circumstances the quality of the reaaerch we do in both universities and research centres. The high quality of the scientists and engineers our universities produce every year.

London and several other big cities are lively and vibrant with lots of things to do, I live just south of Oxford, near Harwell, Culham and many other high tech research estates.

The area is close to Oxford as a cultural centre, the countryside is glorious, the schools are good, and almost every other person I meet is from somewhere else in the world and working in one of the many science facilities.

I can’t neatly sum up describe equity capital markets and debt capital markets in a couple of sentences Maizie, you will have to read up on them.

Why should the UK be attractive to investors? Low rates of corporation tax for a start.

Still haven't addressed my other point. Why should the UK be attractive to investors?

Germanshepherdsmum

Investment bankers assist companies and governments to raise capital Maisie.
Try using a tax avoidance scheme when, as an employee, you pay tax at source under PAYE.

And how do they do that? There must be a process.

I haven’t seen it yet. Well they are the idiots who elected Truss and therefore Kwarteng.

The country has been scammed by Truss and Kwarteng. Just in time for the party conference. Look out for the standing ovation for Kwarteng today - the chancellor who ‘gets it’ and ‘listens’ My post of 8.57 this morning!

Don’t mean to say I told you so but I’ve just watched Kwarteng’s speech at the Tory conference - applause, nodding dogs, standing ovation. What a sham!

She makes Theresa May seem “Strong and Stable”.