Electoral Reform

Electoral reform is fundamental. It is about basic democracy, fairness, every vote being of equal value.

Without that we are not a democratic country and a government elected by a minority of voters has no moral authority.

Mollygo

Casdon, The things I’m constantly reading about on GN- e.g. PR, being willing to say that a woman is an AHF are all unimportant in the great scheme of things except on GN then. Thanks for letting me know.

Some people do talk and think a lot about specific issues on Gransnet of course, and that doesn’t necessarily reflect the priorities of society as a whole. I’m just thinking of the agenda that will face the Labour Party in power, and I think it’s more important to get the country back on an even keel economically, socially, and dare I say improve morality in public life before considering wholesale electoral reform.

Surely making the UK a democracy should absolutely be his top priority?

Casdon, The things I’m constantly reading about on GN- e.g. PR, being willing to say that a woman is an AHF are all unimportant in the great scheme of things except on GN then. Thanks for letting me know.

Why are you disappointed Mollygo, he has ruled out supporting electoral reform in the next manifesto, but has not said it is off the table for future manifestos? When you consider the huge and complex agenda a Labour Government will face, potentially within the next year, I understand his rationale because there are very pressing issues which have to take priority.

It’s disappointing to see that the first time so many members of a political party are calling for PR, their leader doesn’t support it and can veto it at will.

"Keir Starmer: we won't let you ignore the demand for Proportional Representation

The British public has been demanding Proportional Representation for years. Support from voters is the highest it has ever been, including having doubled among Labour voters.

Thousands campaign for it every year. From First Ministers Mark Drakeford and Nicola Sturgeon, mayors Andy Burnham and Sadiq Khan, to grassroots activists up and down the country. Every major party in Great Britain other than Labour and the Conservatives promised it at the last election.

Now, Labour is a big step closer to joining us. Labour Conference has now passed a motion calling for Proportional Representation. This is an historic moment.

But you said this is "not a priority". Without your support there is no guarantee that Labour will introduce Proportional Representation after the next election. But we are not going away. We will not allow Proportional Representation to be kicked into the long grass.

We want you to take up the torch of electoral reform. We want a manifesto commitment for Proportional Representation. However we vote, all of us want to cast our next vote for a party that commits to PR in its manifesto.

We are closer than ever to achieving equal votes. Will you join us?"

actionnetwork.org/petitions/keir-starmer-proportional-representation-2022

Yes, Katie59 I have always been willing to stand up for my principles and take any flak that comes as a result.

Support the Electoral Reform Society

I hope I see proportional representation before I die. How may I add my very slight support to the cause of proportional repesentation?

I spoilt my ballot at the last GE.

I wrote a little ditty for the LibDem candidate in the hope that they would read it. I was hoping someone would come canvassing so I could express my views in person. Sadly only the tory bothered with so much as a leaflet.

M0nica

By accepting the ballot paper and spoiling it you are acquiescing with a system that says you must mark or submit a voting paper in some form.

I would simply refuse to engage with the voting system in any way.

If you lived in Australia you would pay the fine for the privilege of not voting, your choice.

Compulsory voting, and I stop voting. I have discussed why further up the thread.

Compulsory voting, yes, PR No because it results in unstable governments and small extreme parties have disproportionate influence, like the extreme religious groups in Israel, even a party with 1 or 2 seats can change a policy.

We have seen how coalitions have been difficult recently in the UK, but I guess Labour supporters see it as their best chance of getting into power.

MaizieD

^A Tory/UKip government maybe.^

We have a tory/UKip government right now anyway.

Had UKIP gained a few seats under PR, way back pre Brexit they would have been a minority and not particularly influential. Better to have had that, I think, than our current tory government swinging to the far right and shorn of its 'traditional' tory MPs.

I agree MaizieD Under a PR system UKIP would have won @8 seats, not enough to wield significant power.

If Keir Starmer doesn't want it, it is unlikely to happen no matter how popular it is.

I think you are clutching at straws there MaizieD......We have a tory government. Labour are trying to claw back voters. Who would have thought the union flag and GSTK with all the front bench signing along. Hope they give a rousing rendition of the Red Flag too.

It is almost inconceivable that we will ever have a far left government while we have a UK, but a far right government is always on the cards. People do say one thing in public and tick a different box in private. I really didn't believe it when MrsT won her final GE. Very few openly admitted to voting for her but many obviously did

I still think a good start would be making voting compulsory in a GE.

A Tory/UKip government maybe.

We have a tory/UKip government right now anyway.

Had UKIP gained a few seats under PR, way back pre Brexit they would have been a minority and not particularly influential. Better to have had that, I think, than our current tory government swinging to the far right and shorn of its 'traditional' tory MPs.

varian

Urmstongran

It won’t happen.

It just did

It will only happen if the PM wants it to. Is Keir Starmer a supporter of PR? Lots of things get into party's manifestos but no further.

I do understand why people think PR is a good idea but surely in the recent past the likes of Nigel Fararge would have been in government. A Tory/UKip government maybe. We had the Nick and Dave show so anything is possible.

Whitewavemark2

And it is going to be included in the manifesto.

Oh joy!

Based on what I’ve heard so far, including on the BBC Wales News where they played an interview with Mark Drakeford, it sounds like a form of proportional representation is what is being supported, not a full blown PR system for all seats? I’d be keen to see any detail if it’s available yet?

And it is going to be included in the manifesto.

Oh joy!

Urmstongran

It won’t happen.

It just did

"Labour conference votes to put pledge to introduce PR in manifesto - despite Starmer already ruling it out
The proportional representation motion has been carried.

There is quite loud cheering – even though Keir Starmer has said he will ignore the vote, and not include PR in the Labour manifesto.

The motion says:

Labour must make a commitment to introduce proportional representation for general elections in the next manifesto.

During his first term in office the next Labour government must change the voting system for general elections to a form of PR.

Labour should convene an open and inclusive process to decide the specific proportional voting system it will introduce.

There is a long history of Labour leaders ignoring conference votes they don’t like – even though conference is supposedly meant to be the supreme policy making body in the party.

But that does not mean votes of this kind are always pointless. Opinion on policy shifts over time, and at the very least this makes the case for PR harder to ignore."

www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/sep/26/labour-party-conference-rachel-reeves-keir-starmer-mini-budget?filterKeyEvents=false&page=with:block-6331d2b18f08f9373688e478

Sorry how could I forget the would be Labour leader at the 2019 GE!

grumppa

But if you spoil your ballot paper you aren't actually voting; you are abstaining.

Yes but those votes are still counted. I spoilt my ballot at the last GE. I only had three choices Con, Lab, LibDem........I couldn't bring myself to vote for any of them.

One would give me Boris, one doesn't know if a woman has a penis, and the other was the LibDem.