Are any of you guilty of nimbyism - objecting to solar farms?

A very interesting thread and many people with specialist knowledge here, but MOnica I got into a muddle with one of your longer posts. At the beginning you make the point that profitability depends on the price people are willing to pay for the product. But at the end you say that it seems that the Bristol tidal barrier may at last be commercially viable (excellent news). Is there an underlying inconsistency here? Can it now be done more cheaply or who is now willing to pay more?
[Sorry, OP to divert from solar farms again.]

volver

^So how much energy do solar panels provide during Nov-Jan^

Loads. Its light they need, not sunshine. Also if I remember correctly they are also more efficient at lower temperatures. But don't quote me on that!

Well there's not much light during Nov-Jan either, short daylight hours and often very overcast and extremely dull. If there's no wind then the wind turbines will stop turning. I'm just not convinced that renewables can provide reliable energy for 68 million people. I wish I was.

At this moment solar power is providing us with 12% of the power we are consuming. That must be close to their maximum. have a look at this site[[ gridwatch.co.uk/]] I check it almost as frequently as I check Gransnet. It is fascinating watching how the mix of our electricity power changes fromm day to day and hour to our. At its best renewables and non-CO emitting power sources can be producing almost halh our power. At other times it can be barely 15%. All depends on temperature and weather.

biglouis I have always said this, that no-one seems to object to the pylons in the countryside and the telegraph poles in the street, which all look hideous if you actually look at them. Yet they complain about wind turbines looking ugly.

volver

^So how much energy do solar panels provide during Nov-Jan^

Loads. Its light they need, not sunshine. Also if I remember correctly they are also more efficient at lower temperatures. But don't quote me on that!

You are correct, we have solar panels and they haven’t been as efficient when we have had the really high temperatures this summer.

So how much energy do solar panels provide during Nov-Jan

Loads. Its light they need, not sunshine. Also if I remember correctly they are also more efficient at lower temperatures. But don't quote me on that!

No I wouldnt object to solar or wind farms. I quite like the look of the windmills although I believe they can be noisy. They are no more unsightly than ugly pylons, advertising placards or buildings smeared with graffiti.

Chestnut

So how much energy do solar panels provide during Nov-Jan when it's dull and overcast every day? Days are very short and sometimes so dark we need the lights on all day.

True, to balance that more wind power is produced in winter to balance that out somewhat. The Grid produces a nice graph that shows the energy “mix” from day to day, you will see solar is quite a small part compared to wind.

Basically, at the time of year when we need most energy the solar panels have no sun.

So how much energy do solar panels provide during Nov-Jan when it's dull and overcast every day? Days are very short and sometimes so dark we need the lights on all day.

Cropping is impractical, sheep are always rotationally grazed, moved onto fresh pasture every 3 or 4 weeks to prevent parasite build up. Normal practice, along with a low stocking rate, they would even have shade and shelter from rain, sounds a pretty good deal to me.

Goats were mentioned, they are browsers not grazers, much rather eat bushes and hedges before grass, they also chew fences and would probably damage electrical wiring too.

Calendargirl

Makes sense to have all new builds, factories etc have solar panels, but no one seems to mention that unfortunately not all properties are suitable for them.

They need to face the right way, have the right pitch, not overshadowed by other buildings, trees, hedges etc.

We had solar panels installed a few years ago, we fitted the criteria, but I look around at other properties as I walk about, and think “That roof would be no good for solar”.

I’m not sure that applies so rigidly nowadays, with the most modern solar panels. We’ve just moved to a new-build and every house has them, on N/S/E/W aspects, depending on which way each house is facing.

The building manager says modern panels are much more ‘sensitive’ to the sun and light so should provide some power most of the time, unless it’s heavily overcast. This is in Scotland, so I imagine further south they’d work even better.

M0nica

Katie59 I quite agree, but the discussion was about growing crops.

The problem I can see with grazing sheep on good quality agricultural land, which will not go into a crop rotation, is high stocking rates and that the build up of sheep droppings will make good soil even richer and the rapid growth of grass and weeds fed by the droppings may make the land unsuitable for sheep grazing and difficult to crop as hay.

Land used only for grazing is generally poor quality and often acid soils, and grazing densities are low so that the benefit of the droppings to the poor soil sustains a steady crop of grass. Un fortunately land of that type is not often suitable for solar farms.

Sheep eat just about anything green and growing, MOnica. Perhaps they're not quite as efficient grassland cleaners as goats, but they're not far behind them. That's why George Monbiot complains about them so vociferously. They devastate ecosystems.

Around my area we have lots of sheep grazing hillsides that are unsuitable for arable cultivation. They'd be absolutely fine for putting solar panels on so long as they have the correct aspect. So I'm not altogether sure why you think 'land of that type' isn't suitable?

Katie59 I quite agree, but the discussion was about growing crops.

The problem I can see with grazing sheep on good quality agricultural land, which will not go into a crop rotation, is high stocking rates and that the build up of sheep droppings will make good soil even richer and the rapid growth of grass and weeds fed by the droppings may make the land unsuitable for sheep grazing and difficult to crop as hay.

Land used only for grazing is generally poor quality and often acid soils, and grazing densities are low so that the benefit of the droppings to the poor soil sustains a steady crop of grass. Un fortunately land of that type is not often suitable for solar farms.

M0nica

volver I quote from your link
Agrivoltaics will only work well for plants that require shade and where sunlight is not a limiting factor. Shade crops represent only a tiny percentage of agricultural productivity.[1] For instance, wheat crops do not fare well in a low light environment and are not compatible with agrivoltaics.

Unfortunately in this country, the main crops grown in the fields that solar panels are placed in are field crops like grain, rape, maize etc and while sheep can be grazed. This article talks mainly about growing crops, lettuce and tomatoes that are green house crops in the UK and it seems to me would have high labour costs if grown on under panels. Would probably work in california where they have access to very cheap and abundant labour, but not in the UK where thereis a shortage of farm labour and concomitantly higher wages.

The only practical crop with solar panels is grass, grazed with sheep, they will maintain the field and not damage the panels and structures.
If it is not maintained the surface will quickly return to scrub, bushes and small trees establish quickly, although it is shaded by the panels during the day all of the grass receives some direct sunlight. Production will be limited because no fertilisers will be applied so the stocking rate is low, nevertheless the opportunity for producing organic lamb is realistic.

There is also the opportunity to leave areas ungrazed for wildlife on a rotation while still preventing scrub growth.

In a word - rubbish.

The green power agenda is not rushed, this I know for a fact since I was working on solar panels and the impending energy crisis 40 years ago. What we are experiencing is the fallout from not rushing.

If you want to talk about the technical aspects of green power, I'm your woman.

volver

^Both solar panels and wind turbines are not environmentally friendly at all.^

You have to look at the lifetime environmental impact of, say, the turbine blades compared with carbon rich fuels or nuclear, versus the GW they can produce over a lifetime. And as the article says, in the EU the materials that make up the blades can be re-purposed.

Nothing is free, as was said above. Compared with oil or gas, wind turbines win hands down.

Think there are too many downsides to wind turbines to make them a viable alternative to fossil fuel production, the same is true of solar panels. Neither are a reliable source of power as today's electrical grid cannot store the electricity generated by them. That is a major disadvantage as reliability has to be the over riding criteria. These problems will be solved at sometime in the future but that is many decades away right now. The rushed " green" power agenda is delusional and we are already experiencing the fallout from that delusion.

GrannyGravy13

I think it should be a legal requirement for all new builds to have solar panels, along with water harvesting systems, triple glazing and top notch insulation.

Solar panels should be on factories, schools, hospitals any building really.

There is a huge solar panel farm in the North East of our County along with several wind farms. The nuclear power station has been taken off grid and is decommissioned.

There are new Building Regulations now in place for this.

Part L Building Regs will take effect from 1st June 2022 and aims to deliver a 31% improvement on current sustainability and energy efficiency standards over 2013’s building regulations. All new buildings have to make use of solar, better glazing and more insulation .

Solar and wind has my vote especially as it’s the cheapest way to produce energy. I’m surrounded by both here in Cornwall and have no objections to more going up.

I agree about the problems of having crops that will grow in the shade M0nica. Also Casdon made a very valid point about the use of tractors etc.

volver I quote from your link
Agrivoltaics will only work well for plants that require shade and where sunlight is not a limiting factor. Shade crops represent only a tiny percentage of agricultural productivity.[1] For instance, wheat crops do not fare well in a low light environment and are not compatible with agrivoltaics.

Unfortunately in this country, the main crops grown in the fields that solar panels are placed in are field crops like grain, rape, maize etc and while sheep can be grazed. This article talks mainly about growing crops, lettuce and tomatoes that are green house crops in the UK and it seems to me would have high labour costs if grown on under panels. Would probably work in california where they have access to very cheap and abundant labour, but not in the UK where thereis a shortage of farm labour and concomitantly higher wages.

There is nothing as inconsistent as planning, our local council has refused planning permission to develop a WW2 airfield, a brownfield site, then granted planning for housing on a similar area of prime agricultural land half a mile away.

Calendargirl, The right pitch was something I never knew about until we tried to have solar panels installed on our roof. We are ridiculously well placed to have solar panels, but have been told ‘no’ by 3 different firms because of pitch.

Makes sense to have all new builds, factories etc have solar panels, but no one seems to mention that unfortunately not all properties are suitable for them.

They need to face the right way, have the right pitch, not overshadowed by other buildings, trees, hedges etc.

We had solar panels installed a few years ago, we fitted the criteria, but I look around at other properties as I walk about, and think “That roof would be no good for solar”.

I knew there was a reason I didn't like them.

And there's always Gummi bears.

phys.org/news/2022-08-turbine-blades-recycled-sweet.html