Roe v Wade

I have carried three babies one of whom died. I think differently to you why is this difficult for you to understand.

DiscoDancer1975

Well said Holysox. Once you have felt a baby growing inside you, and delivered this beautiful tiny life, I can’t see how anyone....Christian or not, can reduce this to just a clump of cells which have no ‘life’.

It is, and always will be....murder.

So would you force a woman who had been raped, for instance, to carry her rapist's baby to full term and give birth to it? How about cases where the foetus is so badly deformed that there is no chance of it surviving, or where carrying the baby to full term will put the mother's life at serious risk?

I do wonder how the women on here who have had abortions feel about being called a murderer?

For Christians, you are pretty nasty people.

Glorianny

DaisyAnne as regards your criticisms of me I would never assume that I had any influence or say at all in any legislative matters. That is the prerogative of the elected government. Imagining otherwise in a democracy is a bit weird. And the statutes I think should be removed from our so called constitution are things like the Queen's assent which was used to personally enrich a single family and which remains as part of the constitution you think exists and is admirable

The situation in N Ireland is is interesting because a law was passed but it seems none of the relevant bodies choose to implement that law so abortions are still difficult to obtain in NI and women still travel. Much like what will happen between states in the US when this legislation is enforced.

The above is not what you were said though Glorianny, as you later admitted.

We all have opinions about things we would like to be different. However, we generally understand that if things exist and have existed for centuries then we cannot deny their actual existence just because they don't suit us.

If, as it seems from your later posts, your actual issue related to our constitutional monarchy this thread was never the place to discuss it.

I have tried to get my posting back on topic. It seems you are going to keep trying to justify your posts so I will leave this topic for the time being.

Blondiescot

DiscoDancer1975

Well said Holysox. Once you have felt a baby growing inside you, and delivered this beautiful tiny life, I can’t see how anyone....Christian or not, can reduce this to just a clump of cells which have no ‘life’.

It is, and always will be....murder.

So would you force a woman who had been raped, for instance, to carry her rapist's baby to full term and give birth to it? How about cases where the foetus is so badly deformed that there is no chance of it surviving, or where carrying the baby to full term will put the mother's life at serious risk?

Your first example....the baby has done nothing wrong. There are plenty of people who would love to adopt. I was adopted, and would have loved to have been able to thank my mum for not having an abortion. She’d died by the time I found her.

Your second example is more difficult, I’ll admit. There would have to be certainty, and I’m not sure doctors can always give this. There would definitely be much prayer.

When I was a nurse...doctors would sometimes see women coming back three or four times, for abortions. It was their contraception. On one occasion, the doctor told the woman if he saw her again...he’d sterilise her.

This is what we need to avoid. Abortions for medical reasons are in a different league.

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/abortion-statistics-for-england-and-wales-2020/abortion-statistics-england-and-wales-2020
Seems 98% of the 210,000 abortions performed in the UK in 2020 were under category C, no doubt 'psychological' grounds ... i.e. 'unwanted'. I would accept there can be real compassionate grounds for termination but let's face it most women use abortion as a form of contraception, which of course it isn't.
We have many couples desperate for a family in a society that needs more young people so no reason unwanted, healthy babies can't go to full term and be adopted. Of course, many young mums probably would change their minds once the baby is born. And with DNA testing there shoukd be more emphasis on paternal support and rights.

volver

I do wonder how the women on here who have had abortions feel about being called a murderer?

For Christians, you are pretty nasty people.

But at least we know we're sinners.

F*** me.

Your first example....the baby has done nothing wrong. There are plenty of people who would love to adopt. I was adopted, and would have loved to have been able to thank my mum for not having an abortion. She’d died by the time I found her

I was also adopted. I’m very much pro a woman’s right to choose.

Bringing in “grateful adoptees” is your opinion. We adoptees do not all think the same.

We have many couples desperate for a family in a society that needs more young people so no reason unwanted, healthy babies can't go to full term and be adopted.

Are you even serious right now?! Yay for breeding chattel. You are literally advocating that women are useful only for breeding. Serena Joy, is that you?

HolySox

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/abortion-statistics-for-england-and-wales-2020/abortion-statistics-england-and-wales-2020
Seems 98% of the 210,000 abortions performed in the UK in 2020 were under category C, no doubt 'psychological' grounds ... i.e. 'unwanted'. I would accept there can be real compassionate grounds for termination but let's face it most women use abortion as a form of contraception, which of course it isn't.
We have many couples desperate for a family in a society that needs more young people so no reason unwanted, healthy babies can't go to full term and be adopted. Of course, many young mums probably would change their minds once the baby is born. And with DNA testing there shoukd be more emphasis on paternal support and rights.

Where do you get your statistics that 'most' women use abortion as a form of contraception? I think that's pretty wide of the mark, to be honest.
And as for those who would refuse an abortion to a woman who had been raped - because she could have the baby adopted - well, I'm sorry but I have no words...

I repeat (again!) - making abortion illegal will not stop them happening. It will stop them happening safely. You may have personal views on this, but it will not stop/ has never stopped desperate women seeking to end a pregnancy and the poor will have no access to discreet clinics or air fares to travel to other places. Some/many will pay with their lives, to the detriment of any other children they might have.
I am a Christian .

Neither do I. I’m a Christian but I’m also pragmatic and have compassion for women who are pregnant because of rape, find that they are carrying a foetus which has grave abnormalities or are physically or mentally unable to cope with pregnancy. Some here would condemn all of them to carry the baby to term. Not my kind of Christianity.

Chocolatelovinggran - thank you, that is a point I and many others have also repeated several times on this thread. Making abortion illegal will simply drive desperate women to seek other ways to end their pregnancy. Surely it is better to offer safe, legal access to abortion, or would those who are so vehemently opposed to it rather see desperate women die too? How is that pro life?

volver

F*** me.

You put it better than I did.

I am also shocked that in the 21st century a woman who has supposed equal rights, should be expected to be an incubator for a baby however conceived, and go through a full term pregnancy so that a society can be supplied with more children.
Indeed summerlove very Handmaid’s Tale.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

I really told myself that I wouldn't get into this again. But I'd just like to highlight this: The woman that gave in without thinking through the consequences

We're all so easily led, aren't we?

Actually I find that quite a weird portrayal of men as well.

When I was a nurse...doctors would sometimes see women coming back three or four times, for abortions. It was their contraception. On one occasion, the doctor told the woman if he saw her again...he’d sterilise her.
I hope she reported him to the BMA, and that he was struck off.

I don't think that any doctor should have to carry out an abortion if it is against their conscience to do so; but he had no right to treat a patient like that, or to threaten her with assault.

Galaxy

Actually I find that quite a weird portrayal of men as well.

It really is!

Gave in?? Have we landed in 1950?

HolySox

volver

I do wonder how the women on here who have had abortions feel about being called a murderer?

For Christians, you are pretty nasty people.

But at least we know we're sinners.

Ah, these pick and mix Christians. I see no sign of knowing your sins (one very cross St. Paul, I would think), repenting of them or seeking redemption.

So just a case of "carry on sinning", which is just the farce it sounds like.

I can't, I just can't anymore...

I am so saddened by some of the views expressed on this thread. Legal abortion saves lives...the lives of women who don't have to undergo back street butchery in their most desperate hour. If you are against abortion the answer is simple, don't have one, nobody is going to make it compulsory.

I simply do not believe there is any meaningful number of women who use abortion in place of contraception. When contraception fails, and nothing short of total abstinence from sex is 100%, then some women will want to terminate the pregnancy, and that should be done as safely as possible.

There are very few late abortions and they won't be for women using it as contraception, but because of severe disability in the foetus or because the mother's life is endangered by continuing the pregnancy.

All pregnancies carry some risk to the mother. No woman should have to undertake that risk against her will. The minute you bring people who want to adopt a baby into the argument, you are treating women as commodities to fulfil someone else's need. And as for the 'murder' accusation, that is beneath contempt.

Theodora’s post is nothing short of disgraceful.