The EU and Poland are on a collision course.

Well, yes, Alegrias, I agree that he problems were down to the Gvernment. But as the Government of the time was in favour of Remain it amounted to the same thing for those who were suffering.

The Remain campaign was pitiful. It did nothing to indicate how those difficult issues would be addressed. I’m afraid the majority of remainers were arrogant. They just didn’t think they could lose and they dismissed peoples concerns.

It wasn’t that they believed the Leavers. It was that they were at a point where they thought “Well it can’t be any worse”.

And although it is worse for those who were doing well in the EU, actually, even with Covid and everything else, quite a lot of people I know, in one of the main Leave areas, do think their everyday lives are better.

It could have been different.

Third paragraph isn’t clear.

By “they” I mean those who voted Leave.

The article states that Brexit has so far cost £200 billion ( Ive seen higher figures), and it is hard to estimate the decline in GDP that is a direct result of Brexit - possibly some £130 billion, contribution for 40 odd years £260 billion, yes theres lots of ifs and buts , but the kipper economic argument - the savings on the contributions will be able to be spent on the NHS etc are not going to happen.

I would like to know in what way people feel their lives are better. Is this measurable?

Peasblossom in what way do the 'quite a lot of people you know in one of the main leave areas' think their everyday lives are better since Brexit? Just curious.

MerylStreep

Petera
Just one example of which there are many.
Please note that in the article the French state that the ruling
goes against the country’s constitutional identity

Very similar to what the Poles are saying.

www.politico.eu/article/france-data-retention-bypass-eu-top-court/

Ok let's play tit for tat, for every instance such as this in the EU 27 I will come up with another from the UK where they failed to implement directives. I'm giving you a huge advantage - you have 27 countries to play with and I only have one.

UK VAT treatment of commodity derivatives

MerylStreep

There’s also many instances wher Germany and France have broken the State Aid assistance.

Let me ask you which country was responsible, regularly, for the greatest misuse of EU structural funds.

Petera
The EU Structural Fund is a completely different subject to what I was referring to. The structural fund is distributed by the EU commission to different countries.
I was referring to countries that bail out/ make them more competitive/ give generous tax breaks to companies.

MerylStreep

Petera
The EU Structural Fund is a completely different subject to what I was referring to. The structural fund is distributed by the EU commission to different countries.
I was referring to countries that bail out/ make them more competitive/ give generous tax breaks to companies.

Yes we know that, but what is your point? Do you have a hierarchy of transgressions? Breaking State aid rules is worse than misusing funds?

You understand my point very well, ‘we’ are not any better than ‘them’.

Assumptions from Alegrias. I never thought low wages, dr’s appointments, over crowded schools were down to the EU and I doubt anyone who voted leave actually thought that.

Well, that's really weird, Avalon because on thread after thread on Brexit you could count on at least one poster coming up with the 'we're a small country, can't get doctors appointments, hospital waiting lists, not enough school places, because of EU immigrants' line. People are still doing it.

However much you might want to believe that people voted leave for rational reasons there has been example after example of people who voted leave for the most stupid, illogical (and racist) reasons. There used to be website which had collected many of them. If it still exists I could post it for your information.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

We have no idea do we, how many "voted leave for the most stupid, illogical (and racist) reasons" but what we do know is that the majority who did vote, voted to leave.

Well if we include "illogical", I'd say about 17 million.

MaizieD I see you have resorted to the racist card. All leavers are racist eh? that logic does not follow.

lemongrove

Since Germany was the country that plunged everyone into two terrible wars with it’s expansionist ambitions, I don’t think
It’s a co-incidence that Germany is the main player within the EU.If that has helped to keep peace with it’s near neighbours then all well and good.

Any thoughts on Britain's history of expansionist ambitions?

Uh oh!

European Parliament ‘will sue’ Ursula von der Leyen if she won’t punish Poland.
MEPs could launch legal action if the European Commission refuses to withhold tens of billions of euros from Poland.

Just now - from the Telegraph.
Things are hotting up.

Esther de Lange, a Dutch MEP and senior member of the European People's Party, of which Mrs von der Leyen is a member, warned that the EU risked collapsing “brick by brick” unless Poland is brought back into line.

Here are a few:

blogs.timesofisrael.com/reasons-heard-for-voting-leave-in-the-referendum/

25Avalon

MaizieD I see you have resorted to the racist card. All leavers are racist eh? that logic does not follow.

I don't think so. Avalon. Where did I say 'all leavers are racist?'

To be fair though MaizieD being able to chose your own kettle is pretty key.

Hey Lemongrove was it you who mentioned Germany to the interviewer?

Smileless2012

We have no idea do we, how many "voted leave for the most stupid, illogical (and racist) reasons" but what we do know is that the majority who did vote, voted to leave.

No, and we've no idea how many voted leave for more rational reasons. But the fact remains that there was a certain amount off ignorance displayed by some leave voters. And it's bloody annoying to think that it could have been a few thousand ignoramuses who tipped the vote.

Jonathan Hoffman doesn't get everything right.

blogs.timesofisrael.com/why-brexit-wont-happen/

Scones

To be fair though MaizieD being able to chose your own kettle is pretty key.

Hey Lemongrove was it you who mentioned Germany to the interviewer?

And incandescent light bulbs and more powerful vacuum cleaners. We saw them here on Gransnet, believe me!

Even more annoying is the 12,922,659 who didn't bother to vote!

So I copied a post from Friday to confirm a point made by another poster, and my post got deleted, even though I'd blanked out the names of the people concerned so that they didn't think I was picking on them. And made no comment at all on the content, only on the date it was posted.

But the original (quite offensive and factually wrong) post is still there.

Funny old world, innit?