Lilibet

I'd feel quite vulnerable in one.
I'd be scared of falling over / walking into something, even more than is usual

I wore a long white dress for my wedding, but no veil. No one batted an eye.

I like wedding veils, I like tradition.

Aren't wedding veils really, really odd?

maddyone

Was there criticism of Camilla for not wearing a veil then? Or Eugenie? I think you’ve lost that argument Lucca.

It wasn’t an argument at all.
I was just saying I had never heard that convention. Camilla in a veil would have been bonkers and I didn’t see Eugenie’s wedding outfit. I just think that a major royal wedding such as Harrys would possibly require a veil but I definitely was not putting forward an “argument”, dear oh dear.

People will believe whichever version they would like to be the truth.

There seems to be a hilarious game of “they asked “. “No they didn’t ask”. “Yes they did”. “No they didn’t “ going on.

Was there criticism of Camilla for not wearing a veil then? Or Eugenie? I think you’ve lost that argument Lucca.

Typo. …..we can say that…

Also agree that if Harry and Meghan had simply left the royal family for a private life and not been so horribly bitter in their very public complaints, then no one would have thought anything much about them using the name Lilibet. It may have been seen in a positive light, but after their nasty complaints it makes people think that they are simply cementing their links to the royal money makers.

.? “ although it is said she queried why Meghan was wearing a veil as she’s been married before, but didn’t withhold her consent”
Never heard of a veil being exclusive to first time brides but could be true. However I think we can as it’s that a royal bride with no veil might have been criticised more ?

I agree that if they had used Elizabeth, it would have raised no eyebrows at all. They could have still shortened it to Lili.

I have heard, but don’t know if it’s correct, that it’s expected that the Queen’s approval is normally sought for the names of babies born into the royal family. I have also heard that the Queen’s approval is also sought for wedding dresses used in the royal family. Of course she has never, to our knowledge, refused the design of a wedding dress (although it is said she queried why Meghan was wearing a veil as she’s been married before, but didn’t withhold her consent) nor has she refused a name for a royal family baby, to our knowledge. Maybe these old traditions will die with the Queen, I don’t know. However, if the Queen’s approval for the name Lilibet had been sought, it seems unlikely that she would have refused it, whatever her personal thoughts on the matter. She would have been aware that a refusal, or even hesitancy, would have resulted in another Oprah show or podcast claiming that she wouldn’t even allow them to use the name they wanted. The poor woman couldn’t do right for doing wrong. Maybe she’s happy that they’re using her pet name. My pet name (now discontinued thankfully) when we were young was Petal Swan. Thankfully my children didn’t want to call their children that!

I agree wholeheartedly Elegran. If they had named the child 'Elizabeth' it might not have raised so many eyebrows. As you say, Lilibet was a 'pet name' first used by her little sister as a toddler. Its use by Harry and Meghan claims an intimacy which they have, voluntarily, forsworn.

elegran’s post is spot on.

They’re not even going to call their daughter Lilibet, they’ve nicked it for a brand name.

Great post Elegran
That's exactly how I feel
When I heard the news I had an almost visceral reaction to it
It's sooo personal.

The point, Ladyleftfieldlover, is that Lilibet is not the Queen's name. It is a pet name which she was called as a child by a few very close relatives, because she couldn't say "Elizabeth" when she was small, but said it "Lilibet". When she was older, it was only her husband who used this pet name It is more personal than her given name, and has more emotional vibes around it.

Use your imagination. Suppose your name were Margaret, but you couldn't say that, so (charmingly) as a child you called yourself Migsy, and when you married, your husband called you that too, as a pet name. Then, later in life, one of your family chose to be nasty about you in a very public way, but called their daughter Migsy? Not Margaret but the highly personal Migsy, and they even collared it for their own use as a (probably very commercial) website name for its connotations of closeness to a unique Royal person. Wouldn't you feel that nothing is private and personal to you, that everything is up for grabs?

I don't think anyone would be bothered if H&M hadn't complained to the world about everything royal, and made hurtful comments about various members of the RF.

But, as has been pointed out many times in the press, why would they want to name their child after the Queen when they have criticised her parenting skills and blamed the knock-on effect of those skills for Harry's woes.

And the cynics amongst us think they chose that name in order to perpetuate links between the RF and their "brand".

If Harry said it’s true the palace has to confirm it’s true, that’s
how blackmail works.

My DS & DDIL had the grace, and good manners, to check with me first when they wanted to name DGC after my childhood nick name. Of course I was delighted, but I appreciated the courtesy.

My cousin used my late Mom's name for her daughter's middle name.
She didn't ask or mention it to me first.
I think that was rude, and I was very pee-ed off about it at the time

My first thought today - why on Earth should H and M check with the Queen? It seems that Lillibet is a name used across the world anyway. Should they have checked with Diana’s family about using her name? This is a storm in a teacup whipped up by the tabloid press and those who have never accepted Meghan as Harry’s partner. Oh, I didn’t check with my brother and sister before using their names for my children. In fact the only time I checked was when I wanted to use a name which a friend’s cot death child had. She was fine about it. Can’t we all just calm down?

that Harry, not 'the' Harry.

It was on the news today. Would have been polite to ask the Queen for her thoughts on this before using that name

According to the latest news bulletin (9 am) a Palace spokesman has said the Harry did consult his Grandmother prior to announcing the name Lilibet for his daughter.

To the cynical, (me), it sounds as though the Queen is yet again having to pour oil on troubled waters.