I do wonder- is this what the Brexiters wanted?

Working in the EU when the UK was a member wasn’t always the bureaucracy-free walk in the park some seem to remember. I lived and worked in Germany for two years in 1975/6. I’d to have a residence permit, a work permit, a full medical examination at my expense before I was allowed to join the health insurance scheme.

At first my work permit was refused on the basis that, despite statements from my German employer to the contrary, the job I was doing could be filled by a German national. When I protested that this shouldn’t be happening as we were in the European Community as it was then, I was told that I was subject to German law, not that of the EC. I had to get the British Embassy involved. Yes, that was a (supposed) error, but everyone had to have the two visas and the medical.

And I’ve spent the last six months trying to get the German pension I’m entitled to. From others in the same situation, I know that this could be a very long haul....

Regular entry requirements
Visas
The rules for travelling or working in European countries changed on 1 January 2021:

you can travel to countries in the Schengen area for up to 90 days in any 180-day period without a visa. This applies if you travel as a tourist, to visit family or friends, to attend business meetings, cultural or sports events, or for short-term studies or training
if you are travelling to France and other Schengen countries without a visa, make sure your whole visit is within the 90-day limit. Visits to Schengen countries within the previous 180 days before you travel count towards your 90 days
to stay longer, to work or study, for business travel or for other reasons, you will need to meet the French government’s entry requirements. Check with the French Embassy what type of visa and/or work permit you may need
if you stay in France with a visa or permit, this does not count towards the 90-day limit
Any time you spent in France or other Schengen countries before 1 January 2021 does not count towards your 90-day visa-free limit.

I just read through it. Hideous red tape ! I didn’t see that it mentioned a month prior to visit. But it has to be submitted approved and then sent to the person coming to visit,....

That doesn’t make any sense. If family are visiting then they are just on holiday and there are no restrictions for short term stays.

That’s awful. So my DS and family can’t take an impromptu trip to visit DIL’s parents who live in France ? E,g suddenly finding a cheap flight and deciding to go? Wanting pay a surprise visit ?

Yes this is what we were talking about above. It has always been the rule for third country nationals in France, so now applies to UK. We will have to fill in a form a month in advance, get it stamped at the Mairie, pay 30€ and send it to our families to present at the border.

Goodness! Just seen this on twitter:

Start

It now transpires that UK citizens living in France who wish to host their families for holidays post #Brexit will have to apply to their local maire for permission a month in advance, submit a raft of documents proving they can accommodate them and pay a fee. Thanks #Brexiters.
8:09 AM · May 15, 2021·Twitter for Android

Pete Timmins
@petertimmins3
·
For those who would like to check out the rules themselves here are a couple of links.

demarches.interieur.gouv.fr/particuliers/formulaire-demande-attestation-accueil

service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F2191
Démarches - Ministère de l'Intérieur
Le portail officiel du ministère de l’Intérieur consacré aux démarches administratives : carte grise, immatriculation, carte d'identité, passeport, permis de conduire, accueil des étrangers, acquis...
demarches.interieur.gouv.fr

End

twitter.com/petertimmins3/status/1393463544084144130



Came into force on 1st of May, it appears.

Whether it is down to France or the UK ,it couldn't have happened when we were a member.

Beckett nothing to do with UK in the sun (just as well in Normandy ?). We speak the language fluently, I have served as a local councillor, am still teaching in my seventies and our life is absolutely as part of the local community, as it is for the (few) other British people I know. So no, I don't think you can make generalisations. Of course it is much harder if you don't speak the language; I would never recommend that.

I think really you can only judge how much difference Brexit is making to our everyday lives if you live in the EU and have become a third country national after years of freedom of movement. Comparisons to how it was before are neither relevant or helpful.
I am pretty sure many of us spent time in other countries as students, travellers, holidaymakers, business people etc before the Single Market / Customs Union. Then we experienced freedom of movement.
DH and I have lived here since 2005. We have also gone through currency fluctuations, issues with health cover, bureacracy associated with running a small business.
Brexit feels very different to any of those.

Having previously owned property in Spain the thing that amazed me were the number of British who moved there and made no effort to integrate, wanted British pubs, British restaurants, British food in supermarkets and expected the locals to speak English.

I appreciate not all British residents were like that but a great many were - there were enclaves where every resident was British. Could this be why people are getting so het up about "problems caused by Brexit", basically they want UK in the sun.

I have a holiday home and I refuse to panic.

We have a holiday home in France, too, Ellianne. Where have I said that I am panicking?

I am just very angry.

Dinahmo
Pre 1973 I travelled quite freely in Europe.
Just the same as now: I booked my ferry/ air tickets.
From what I remember the only difference was filling in the ‘form’ on the plane and in my case sailing into ports ( private yachts) we couldn’t go ashore until customs had cleared us, the same when we left the port.
The big change was the euro.
Maybe I’m missing something. It’s possible ?

Yes I remember that poster. She has never returned.

The bullying was incessant and the worse example of the sort of unpleasant behaviour you can experience on social media.

No, I’m not an “attacking” type of poster - just nosy! I was just wanting clarification - trying to get my head round the pros and cons of Brexit (I voted Remain)

I apologise, then, Lisagran.

I have watched a poster be completely bullied off the site for not being in the UK (and not being 'properly' British, only naturalised) and there was an attempt to identify Kali2 as her yesterday, apparently to start a pile in. I was a bit suspicious of that apparently innocent question. Apologies again...

Ellianne

I'm confused as well Lisagreen.
Maizie allows Kali to use visual metaphors but criticises my Pollyanna attitude. And I know you are not an attacking type of poster!

I 'm surprised you're unable to discriminate between the two. One (Pollyannaism) is value laden, the other (green grass metaphor) isn't.

Dinahmo I wonder whether we will now see a different type of person moving abroad? Not the retirees, who are more troubled by changes, but the younger families who can work remotely and who embrace things. Covid may have brought about a change in this area just as much as Brexit. I belong to a group where families are moving almost daily to France for a better quality of life, and the formalities are just a headache to be endured in the short term.
I have a holiday home and I refuse to panic.

Ellianne Since joining the EU in 1973 we have been used to freedom of movement. To come and go at will. Many people bought holiday homes for that reason. They could decide to take a brake and just go - no planning required. Some of those people planned to retire to their holiday homes.

People did the research, given the circumstances obtaining at the time. I suspect that the vast majority of Brits who have made new lives in the EU did so with a lot of planning. Ten years ago no one anticipated the UK leaving the EU so how could people factor in such a significant change?

I'm confused as well Lisagreen.
Maizie allows Kali to use visual metaphors but criticises my Pollyanna attitude. And I know you are not an attacking type of poster!

That’s it in a nutshell Elliane

I am not too concerned about the form, the Mairie or the 30€ fee Welshwife / Sodapop.
What worries me is the requirement to do it a month in advance of the visit. We live very close to one of the ports and in normal times our family often visit us at short notice. The thought that they might not be able to get to us when they / we might need family support is not a good one.

^What a sensible postEllianenothing is unsurmountable as you say, and things change all the time.
Some people however, cannot seem to deal with change.^
I so agree.
Life changes, life evolves. Be prepared, but be ready to adapt, to find an answer and to smile.

MaizieD

Lisagran

Just depends. The problem here is that the colour of the grass changed somehow, unexpectedly

Are you not in the UK, Kali2 ?

Poised to attack, Lisagran? Does it matter where she lives?

If you read the post again I think you'll find that 'the colour of the grass' is a metaphor, not a literal description.?

No, I’m not an “attacking” type of poster - just nosy! I was just wanting clarification - trying to get my head round the pros and cons of Brexit (I voted Remain)

MaizieD

^What I am saying is, if you choose to move abroad - do your homework, factor in difficulties and costs, seek advice and just go with it. Even in Brexit times nothing is insurmountable.^

What you are doing here, Ellianne, is missing the entire point, which is that Brexit has introduced complexities to moving to an EU country which didn't exist before. No amount of Pollyannaism changes that fact.

Hell, I'm still annoyed that we can no longer book a ferry or flight, pick up our passports and go. No amount of telling me that we 'only' have to do this, that or the other, extra is any consolation. In fact, it is the source of extra annoyance at the mentality of the people who put us into this stupid position.

Still with absolutely no tangible benefits to show for it.

Just a different state of mind on my part, and I did start by saying I am not posting here to unravel all the points. I am focusing on the human aspect mentioned.
I am fed up with people saying dreams are smashed. If people moving/living abroad can't cope with the nightmares then they will see doom and gloom all over. It is a challenge, of course, what Brexut has kicked up,vbut it is a fantastic ride whatever.

Some people however, cannot seem to deal with change

What a stupid comment.

MaizieD it seems to me that you are the one poised to attack.....other posters who ask any question at all of Kali and I am wondering why? Asking if she is in the UK ( because it seems perhaps not from her posts) is a harmless enough question, so let Kali answer for herself.