Where are all the Statesmen/Great leaders?

That's says more about those people than it does about Nicola Sturgeon, mainly that that they think the Jimmy Krankie thing is anything other than dull and unoriginal. I think there is quite a lot of misogyny directed at sturgeon, I have concerns about the state of education for example in Scotland but the comments on her appearance and voice are just so tedious.

Esspee I'm always in two minds about Nicola Sturgeon. Sometimes she comes across as strong, sensible etc, sometimes as strident and screechy. So I can't agree that she's a born leader. My OH works in Scotland quite often where even her supporters refer to her as 'Wee Jimmy Krankie', so given that level of disrespect I don't think she is the best example of a true leader.

It’s worth remembering IMO that in the not so distant past, the media (such as they were then) were much more deferential towards anyone seen as important, and so any peccadilloes or dodgy connections would be far less likely to come out publicly, even if they were known about in ‘upper’ circles.

Definitely Angela Merkel, she is so dignified whatever the occasion.
I agree with Kim, whatever you think of Boris, and frankly I don’t think much, who would replace him? There is no one .
who stands out.

Calandargirl
I think if Margaret Thatcher was handling the pandemic, we’d be in a whole different place by now.

Is it a coincidence that the majority of 'statesmen ' mentioned here, are in fact, states women?

In the U.K. the only politician who commands statesmanlike respect is Nicola Sturgeon. She has handled herself extremely well during the pandemic and is a born leader. Whether you agree with her politics is another question. I have many friends in England who wish she was leader of the U.K.

www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/02/03/the-dark-side-of-winston-churchills-legacy-no-one-should-forget/

nanna8, I think, perhaps, we used to admire and look up to them - when we were young, trusting - and naive. Now we know better.

Even my parents seemed to admire Churchill, although they never voted for him. There's a real need for a 'great leader' in troubled times, so anyone vaguely fitting the description will do.

Right now - no, I can't think of any!

Boris would have been better as some sort of tv presenter. Witty, amusing and loves himself. Perfect credentials. Not as Prime Minister , though, never as Prime Minister . I think Putin is good for the Russians but he certainly wouldn’t go down well in the West. Many Chinese people love Xi Jinping who has brought them out of poverty but to us he is ,well, eeeugh. Sometimes I think we are too ready to focus on tearing people down for small things which is the fault of social media partly. Perhaps they no longer get the chance to be ‘ great’. They don’t pay enough for that.

suziewoozie

One thing a statesman/leader would never do is make a joke that references a murdered woman and her murdered partner. Just when I think Johnson has sunk to the depths, he reminds me how wrong I am and there is further to fall. Yuk

It's just how he is - unable to present a serious front and always has to give a little off the cuff quote or joke.

Ever the performer.

I never really thought of HW as a leader though ( although I know he was). I’ll have a think about that. I agree about the type of politician he was.

I really liked Harold Wilson. An old fashioned politician who believed in what he did and was not just out to please voters.

It didnt surprise me at all Suzie.

One thing a statesman/leader would never do is make a joke that references a murdered woman and her murdered partner. Just when I think Johnson has sunk to the depths, he reminds me how wrong I am and there is further to fall. Yuk

Good summing up Suzie.
I’d like to add Franklin D. Roosevelt to the list. He led America out of the Great Depression & his cooperation with Churchill during WW2 was vital in defeating fascism.
His & Churchill’s vision of a united Europe post-WW2 was the basis of the EU.
They must both be turning in their graves.

There’s also the issue of time and place. I think Churchill was exactly the right person during the war but not for peacetime reconstruction.

Although not everyone agrees with her, Angela Merkel commands respect even from her opponents, she has been a stable pair of hands. Germany has become one of the wealthiest countries in the world under her leadership, and has retained a strong manufacturing base which Thatcher got rid of in the U.K.

Surely it depends on what you know about the person in question, and where you stand in your beliefs?

A 'Statesmans like' leader who achieves nothing is what?

A flawed politician who leaves a legacy of achievement gained by 'non' statesman means?

A complicated mix of both, in other words a human being?

Take your pick I suppose.

It's all academic anyway, because the future will dictate who is looked back on with pride and who isnt.

I think the OP makes a pertinent point about the influence of social media. I think maybe some of the great leaders of the past were nowhere near as great as we thought but did not have to contend with the exposure they would get today. Not only was there no social media but the main stream media was much more compliant. In some ways it could be argued that we expect too much from leaders today and the ones that are perhaps seen as more successful as leaders (JA AM NS BO) all seem to share more wholesome private lives. I think they also seem to exude integrity - whether we agree with them politically or not they they seem to ‘hang together’ with their beliefs and ideals and act on the basis of a set of genuinely held standards. Although of a different era now, I would put MT firmly in this category as well. Great leaders imo have dignity, a sense of quiet self worth and give you confidence that the decisions they make are based on what they genuinely think is best and not just popular. A really interesting thread - thank you OP

I think we have to remember that the population of New Zealand is just over half that of Greater London and that New Zealand is a small, isolated country.
I applaud Jacinda Arden’s leadership and handling of the pandemic, but I’m not sure she has the experience & record to be considered a statesman on the world stage in the same way that Angela Merkel can.

Ro60 I agree, she was the last 'proper' politician in the Tories.

Personally hoping the Kier Starmer is a slow burner and will come into his own.

I also thought Emily Thornberry had a lot of potential.

The current cabinet remind me of the Bash St Kids from the Beano! Raab is definitely Plug...

In an ideal world Jacinda Ardern would agree to being cloned and everyone would have one

Jacinda Ardern demonstrates how great leaders can be kind and compassionate and don't always have to be always shouting how great they are. She is a great team builder and seems to be good at getting everybody on side.

I have high hopes for Kamala Harris. I'm glad some of you mentioned Nicola Sturgeon too. All these women being mentioned - perhaps the world is coming round to the fact that you don't have to show "masculine" qualities to be a great leader.

Very interesting thread nanna8, thank you for starting it.

Agree that close to home Nicola Sturgeon has been head and shoulders above the rest. Agree also though with OP. I can’t see any real statesman around. Merkel is very good but giving it up. Ardern has been an inspiration. AOC and Harris are both strong contenders. .... Now, I look back at my words and notice something- they are all female!!! There’s a thing. I didn’t see that until I typed it ?

I'm not a nationalist before there's a pile on, but Nicola sturgeon has been a leader in Scotland and has been impressive. She is naturally cautious which has stood her and Scotland in good stead. There have been decisions I haven't agreed with but there is no doubt in my mind that she is leading the country.

Angela Merkel and Jacinda Ardern immediately spring to mind to me. Neither of them from the UK, US or Australia as nanna8 mentioned but powerful women leading their countries, nonetheless. In the US there are some women with potential coming through the ranks of politics. Kamala Harris, already Vice-President and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Ilhan Omar are ones to watch. Sadly, I don't see anyone exciting in our political parties.