Trump is shocked his supporters are low life/low class

We were chatting one day to a neighbour when we rented a house in the US a few years ago and he remarked that the local Churches had a Bible in one hand and a gun in the other. Which seems to sum some of them up pretty well.

Harsh to say that the protesters were ‘low life’s’ when it was a US Veteran who was killed, misguided, easily led and wrong yes, but to call a Veteran a low life, when Trump and his father ‘avoided’ serving for their Country is yet another example of his mental state, I also blame all who sucked up to him for the last 4 years to keep their jobs.

Any belief system can be a force for evil. Belief systems also tend to reflect the historical/social context in which they operate. The Catholic Church had huge power in Ireland. As evidence of the extent of sexual abuse of children and the ill treatment of children in say the Dublin Laundries began to emerge, so the power of the Church began to diminish.

It seems unfair to me to dismiss Christianity as authoritarian. That was certainly not my experience growing up in a family where Christianity was simply part of life. We weren't unusual in having parents who encouraged Sunday school, Communion etc but readily accepted when we dropped out of Church attendance.

I have a number of friends who became ordained later in life. I have friends who are practicing Christians and I don't know any authoritarian Christians personally. Not to say they aren't alive and causing mayhem in some places but culture here has always been very different than US culture. Dare I say it, we're much more European in our attitudes than American.

Religiosity can be a force for evil. Often religiosity is a force for good.

I suggest what makes religiosity a force for good is ability of religious individuals to think independently + broadly informed + disinterested.

Disinterest is what characterises saints.

All religions are authoritarian; they have a set of rules, laws, beliefs that you have to follow if you are a true believer.

As for evangelical sects, we have one where I live, not flourishing quite as it used to, and I can assure you that its supporters are most definitely not far -right.
Most likely Green.
You do make sweeping assumptions.

varian

Extreme religious control can take many forms

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/6X6gKxkngtvy5CWQcGPPG4/the-making-of-irelands-lost-babies

I was listening to R4 this morning which highlighted this issue.

I think that we have been aware of this issue for years. There has as well been similar issues in the U.K. mainland as well.

It is all as a result of an authoritarian sect of Christianity.

But Christianity is authoritarian.

Extreme religious control can take many forms

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/6X6gKxkngtvy5CWQcGPPG4/the-making-of-irelands-lost-babies

Religions are largely by their belief systems - authoritarian.

Christian evangelicalism is certainly an authoritarian sect. We have a thriving section of that sect in the U.K. I suspect that mos5 would vote for the right or far right politics.

Absolutely not Alexa.

I would say that most devout Muslims and most devout Christians are decent peaceful folk as are most Atheists, Agnostics and members of other religious groups.

What is apparent though is that religious fervour can be twisted and manipulated by malign forces in ways that we have seen demonstrated graphically amongst a tiny but very dangerous number of radicalised Muslims and what we are now witnessing in the USA is a similar radicalisation of some Christians which is pushing them over the edge.

Varian, are you saying devout Muslims are as likely as the aggrieved, impoverished , unemployed, and religionless to become fascists?

I'd have thought devout Muslims are pretty well disciplined by their faith , unlike Nazis who were recruited from among dissaffected white people who distrusted all traditional authorities.

I am surprised anyone would find it "almost incomprehensible in Christian[s] here", as the journalist declares.

In a couple of threads we have highlighted and discussed the profile of those drawn to these extreme movements. I am currently watching another unveiling of the behaviour of nuns in a convent in Ireland. Religions tend to be authoritarian and controlling of the community they cover.

The same people attracted to this could easily be attracted to other organisations declaring they know more than the average person, particularly if what they know is salaciously "wrong" and allows the joiner to feel righteously judgemental.

That, of course, does not mean that all religious are going to behave in an extreme and unlawful way but we perhaps should not be patting ourselves on the back simply because 'it couldn't happen to Christians here'. It could and over the centuries and right up to recent history, it has.

I was surprised to read Trump had said so. I'd have thought Trump was aware his support was from people with no college education.
Perhaps Trump meant he was surprised the rioters were badly dressed, or shouty. That does not make sense either.

Maybe Trump is trying to make himself more charming to the more educated voters. That will not work as more educated not likely to be snobbish.

"How White Evangelical Christians Fused With Trump Extremism. A potent mix of grievance and religious fervor has turbocharged the support among Trump loyalists, many of whom describe themselves as participants in a kind of holy war."

An article in The New York Times draws attention to a phenomenon which is almost incomprehensible in Christian here - how religious Americans could ever support the utterly disgustingly immoral Trump.-

"The most extreme corners of support for Mr. Trump have become inextricable from some parts of white evangelical power in America. Rather than completely separate strands of support, these groups have become increasingly blended together.

This potent mix of grievance and religious fervor has turbocharged the support among a wide swath of Trump loyalists, many of whom describe themselves as participants in a kind of holy war, according to interviews. And many, who are swimming in falsehoods about the presidential election and now the riot itself, said the aftermath of Wednesday’s event has only fueled a deeper sense of victimhood and being misunderstood."

www.nytimes.com/2021/01/11/us/how-white-evangelical-christians-fused-with-trump-extremism.html

For those of us who have questioned Islamic radicalisation and terrorism, this is a serious warning.

Republican members of Congress who voted against certifying Joe Biden’s presidential victory, even after a mob broke into the Capitol, are being denounced by critics in their home districts who demand that they resign or be ousted.

Protesters, newspaper editorial boards and local-level Democrats have urged the lawmakers to step down or for their colleagues to kick them out. The House and Senate can remove members with a two-thirds vote or censure or reprimand with a majority.

abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/lawmakers-voted-biden-blasted-back-home-75165301?cid=referral_taboola_feed

This is a real test for the Republican Party.

My American friend subscribes to a daily newsletter written by an university academic in Massachusetts. The 8th Jan report included details of the riot on 6th Jan with a caveat that details were being updated/changing but the academic had tried to report only what was believed to be facts at the time of writing.

These included
Blood on statues inside the Capitol and faeces smeared throughout the building.
Three rioters, overheard by a Reuters photographer, plotting to find and hang Mike Pence for being a traitor. One of the three was equipped with zip tie handcuffs so clearly intended taking prisoners.
Scrutiny of the Stop the Steal rally revealed Trump promising to lead the crowd to the Capitol himself.

The mayor of Washington requested support from the National Guard before the rally but the Department of Defense said the Guard could not have ammunition or riot gear, interact with protestors unless in self defence or otherwise act in a protective capacity without permission of the acting Defense Secretary.
Requests for help from the Capitol police was denied by the Defense Dept for about three hours.
Maryland's Republican governor tried repeatedly to send in his own National Guard to assist Capitol police but the Pentagon would not authorise it. Virginia's National Guard was mobilised after Nancy Pelosi called the Governor of Virginia.
Even while the senators were under siege, Trump and Rudy Giuliani made calls to newly elected Republican senator Tommy Tuberville, urging him to slow down the electoral count.

The Democrats have formally charged Trump with inciting insurrection- the first move towards impeachment.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/11/trump-impeachment-house-democrats-charge-president-with-incitement-of-insurrection

FannyCornforth we often agree, and, no, I haven't read Mary Trump's book although I have read many reviews and summarys.

Thanks Amber - it's a minefield.

Fennel just as an aside, the term “coloured” is considered to be offensive these days - the phrase “person of colour” or “POC” is preferred.

Nothing wrong with being “low class”. Everything wrong with being a far right racist.

1am This was just a comment to someone who thought the group were white, racist. No blacks.
There was a photo of him and he did look black.

M0nica I've just read your post again, and it is chilling.
Have you read Mary L Trump's book btw?

Yes, excellent post M0nica.
(It always helps when someone agrees with me! )

Fennel, what do you mean a "coloured Cuban"?

I read he identifies as Afro Cuban and leads a group called Latino's for Trump. He was born in Miami

He's part of the right wing, misogynist racist groups that support Trump. He's been arrested and evidently charged with possession of all manner of weaponry.

As for Melania, I have no words. I try not to be offensive about other women because we have one thing in common, we're female. It ends there for me with women like her.

Yes it was a perfect description of Trump.

MOnica, great post at 15.06 today, it made chilling reading because it seems to me, its so accurate.