A big thank you to those who voted for Brexit

Some have asked for examples of my optimism

Absolutely no we didn't, Joelsnan. We asked to be given examples of new opportunities. I know they both begin with 'op' but the words have vastly different meanings.

I'm sorry that you're disappointed about some Leavers' reactions, even now that the deed is done, but I refer you back to the extract I posted from Chris Grey's blog.

Brexiters believe themselves to have been a ‘resistance’ movement that has enacted a national liberation, they expected the whole of the country to welcome it, and are genuinely bemused that at least half the country does no such thing.

If you want to continue with your house moving analogy, it's like moving the family from the Caribbean to Siberia when half didn't want to go and don't like it there...

Joelsnan

vegansrock
There is nearly always an alternative perspective:

Lord True, closing the debate, explained: “In negotiations with the EU on business travel we proposed to expand the list of permitted activities for short-term business visitors, notably to include work done by artists, entertainers, musicians and supporting staff.

”This would have ensured that musicians could have travelled to the EU without work permits.

“However, the EU rejected this because they considered that touring musicians were providing a service directly to consumers rather than performing a business visit.

^”We did point out that there were other types of short-term business that provide direct services, but the EU didn’t alter its position^

That is what being a third country is all about. Show me where the EU relaxes its requirements for other third country musicians and I'll concede that you have a point.

Joelsnan have you read what’s happened at Holyhead port?

Transit is down by two thirds so far, new ferry routes have opened up to take goods directly from France to Ireland to avoid the red tape, and many British companies including big names aren’t currently transporting goods to Ireland. There will be mass job losses in an area with minimal alternative employment if things don’t improve.

vegansrock
There is nearly always an alternative perspective:

Lord True, closing the debate, explained: “In negotiations with the EU on business travel we proposed to expand the list of permitted activities for short-term business visitors, notably to include work done by artists, entertainers, musicians and supporting staff.

”This would have ensured that musicians could have travelled to the EU without work permits.

“However, the EU rejected this because they considered that touring musicians were providing a service directly to consumers rather than performing a business visit.

”We did point out that there were other types of short-term business that provide direct services, but the EU didn’t alter its position

“Johnson”

Dinahmo
Extrapolate my comment about house moves. In many instances not everyone in the family are happy with the move, but have to go along with the majority or senior decision makers. It is often hateful initially losing familiarity, friends etc., but in most instances these soon become distant memories as new friendships are forged and you embed into the home and community.

vegansrock
Why do you assume I am a ‘’Jonson fan’.? I would not presume you were a Trump lover. Thank you, I make my own mind up based upon evidence, common sense and research.

MayBee There have been very few, if any tours this year. All the jazz festivals in France were cancelled from the beginning of March as were virtually all the other music events.

I suspect that Johnson isn't a music lover and/or he is unaware of the financial contributions our musicians make to the economy. which is far greater than that from fish I guess.

Joelsnan Whenever people move house or set up a new business it usually involves just a few people. Generally they will have done their research before undertaking such a change.

Brexit has been inflicted upon the millions who voted to Remain and the Leavers who have since had a change of heart.

Perhaps a Johnson fan could tell us why U.K. have rejected the EU offer of visa free travel for musicians?

MaizieD
I acknowledge the metaphorical spat, but as someone who has not engaged in any Brexit conversation for a good while (because it had become so entrenched on both sides). Yes I voted Leave, however I wouldn’t have really bothered if the vote had gone the other way, in fact I was shocked at the result.
I returned to the forum expecting a bit of optimism (even grudging), just as those who vote for a failed political party in an election accept and hope for the best, yet the same people are still looking for problems.
We were promised gridlock at the ports, it hasn’t materialised, however rather than acknowledging this, we are hit with the odd truck with the wrong documentation.
As mentioned in my initial post, How many new enterprises run smoothly from day one? How many have moved houses without hitch? Yet remain voters expect this of Brexit.
And whatever, this is the now status quo and as such, wouldn’t it be better to look for ways to encourage those now trying to make it work and the entrepreneurs looking for innovative opportunities rather than mourning what has gone and looking for things to criticise?
Some have asked for examples of my optimism. My major optimistic thought is my faith in our people. For centuries our innovators and entrepreneurs have led the world, innovations of recent times have been the jet engine, radar, IT and internet, these are just two or three and its not just UK that have benefited from our enterprise, the rest of the world has. So, I am optimistic and I have faith.

In the Sunday Telegraph there’s an article saying Boris has tasked a team of 20 civil servants to take out rules & regulations from swathes of documents. It’s been called ‘Operation Bleach’.

I trust that we, the citizens of the UK, are gong to be told which 'rules and regulations' (of which, by the way, no Leaver has ever been able to quote one that blights their life or hampers their business) are being expunged because they just might be things that materially affect our lives, like working hours directives and environmental protections.

And, as EU regulations were taken into law in the UK and 'transferred' to the gloriously independent UK by way of the Withdrawal Act and are now to be observed as part of the Level Playing Field in our FTA with the EU, I think civil servants might have to be very careful about what they delete else, Wham! on go the tariffs.

I think KS is sensibly going with the flow. For now at least. He will be aware of Labour’s red wall who lent Boris their vote. KS won’t want to alienate voters (just now) who overwhelmingly voted Boris in on his mandate.

Mind you, last week the former Labour shadow minister Rosie Duffield said the majority of Labour MPs were “desperate to rejoin” the EU “at heart”, adding that Labour MPs voted for Boris Johnson’s deal “with a heavy heart” and “haven’t given up” on EU membership.

Rejoining is not going to happen, they would not have us as full members, what may happen is rejoining the EEA or possibly EFTA and share the same economic rules.

UM Did you see Starmer on Marr this morning - not the impression he gave but things can change in four years.

Well we’d all better get used to the new way of doing things outside the EU.

In the Sunday Telegraph there’s an article saying Boris has tasked a team of 20 civil servants to take out rules & regulations from swathes of documents. It’s been called ‘Operation Bleach’.

Apparently Labour are only paying lip service to Brexit and would rejoin in a heartbeat if they come to power.

Boris obviously wants ‘Brexit to Stay Brexit’.

Although neonicotinoids have been widely demonized the effect on Bees is very limited and where use I’d permitted beekeepers have no problem putting hives close to flowering crops, here is a conclusion from one research study -

Overall, the majority of laboratory and semi-field research demonstrates neonicotinoids can be harmful to honey bees; however, the majority of field studies find only limited or no effects on honey bees.

However, other insects are another matter, there is a large decline in insects in general, you don’t get the flies in the house or splattered on the car windscreen you had a few years ago. There is something in the environment causing this decline, neonicotinoids have been blamed but although evidence is far from proved they are a definite candidate because their use has been widespread.

In Europe they have been banned for several years to insect populations should recover, if they don’t it’s something else!.

A lot of bands that many people have forgotten about tour Europe as they still have a fan base there albeit now having day jobs as well. A friend of my daughters is a sound engineer and often worked abroad: I need to ask her if it has affected his work. Musicians have been talking about the problems brexit will cause them for a long time.

Don’t worry someone will come along and herald all the success stories of trade deals done - which before they do - they are exact rubber stamps of the ones we had before ( not all of them natch) . As for the UKs marvellous environmental record- why is it only 16% of our rivers meet EU standards? - because of the farming lobby which thinks it’s ok to let slurry and pesticides flow freely and thinks nothing of destroying the insect ecosystem. Not to mention the catastrophic decline in wildlife. It’s taken huge pressure to get ONE river in the U.K. to get to bathing quality standards, and even that is threatened.

Still one thing I applaud the Brexiters for.

They haven’t rubbed our nose into a single success story since we left.

Not a single one.

Prior to the EU it was all a very different place - rules and regulations have grown and changed over 40 years.
I was only saying how things are changing for musicians in this day and age not 40 plus years ago. Musicians who are TCN do work in the EU but their visas etc are quite different.

And now, having metaphorically spat at Joelsnan I have to post that I am in agreement with what she has posted about the emergency permission given to sugar beet producers to use neonics coated seed this year to control the insects which infect the sugar beet with the virus. The sugar beet *don't flower' before they are harvested so the bees won't be getting poisoned pollen or nectar from them.

On the other hand, I think her faith in our government to be 'up there with the best in environmental matters' is touchingly misplaced. They only can't totally remove the ban because that would adversely affect the Level Playing Field that has been agreed with the EU and get tariffs slapped onto our exports to the EU. If they 'could' remove the ban I'm sure that they would...

We're not looking for affirmation, Joelsnan. We're just telling you all how very pissed off we are and making sure that anyone who cares to read what we post is aware of what a dogs breakfast it all is. Leave voters are mostly avoiding us because they really don't want to know what damage their vote has done.

I am still AGOG to hear about all the exciting new opportunities that Brexit offers us; so are quite a few other people.

MaizieD
^ chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2021/^

The only people I see on here looking for affirmation are remain voters. How many who voted to leave EU are on this or any other Gransnet thread looking for affirmation? Its just the ‘usual suspects’ Even the article posted affirms this.