Could you imagine Mrs Thatcher breaking the law?

Our fishermen were paid by the EU to burn off their boats! They sold licences to foreign outfits because the pathetic quota which that snake Edward Heath agreed with Europe in his desperation to get us into the Common Market, which I to my now shame agreed to with enthusiasm, didn't cover the cost of running a trawler, paying the crew and and making a living. The idea was to decimate our then thriving fishing industry for the privilege of pursuing profit and making a lot of city folk fabulously wealthy, while others were actually sent to the wall. If I'd known then what I know now I'd have listened to Tony Benn and voted NO! Frankly if push comes to shove, I would without a doubt break the law if it meant that we can banish those revolting monster trawlers and properly protect the sea life and environment round out shores and not have to witness dead or dying sea birds, seals, porpoises, and aything else that gets snared up in these hideous nets, quaintly referred to as waste products, never mind fishing the sea dry! Boris has to stand up to the EU over this, and if we have to use undesirable methods then so be it. On the other hand if the EU can discuss this issue properly, without the usual demands and threats, then I'm sure we can come to an agreeable solution.and no laws need to be broken! I.see Michael Gove has been 'ordered' by the German lady to attend a meeting!!!!! Ordered?! what is she like? Perhaps asked might be a bit more user friendly!

Only the most flag waving of Brexiteers would view it that way lemongrove.

What would Johnson and his cabinet have to do to overstep the mark with the Billy Britains I wonder.

You reckon that sea life etc are going to be protected by this bunch?

They’re wanting to scrap the EU environmental legislation that exists along with the Human Rights Act of course.

This lot would sell their grannies for cash - they’re not going to care about a few sea birds

Sigh!

Of course,silly.me just a few seabirds NOT! Why would anyone care about conservation or the environment at all, after all global warming is only about a few dead Polar bears! What a silly fuss about nothing when there is trade and profit at risk! All that fuss about the rain forests? What a load of rubbish about a few trees and distressed wild life! You're right, profit and destruction every time! Tbh I despair! I think you will find this government will take action when it can if not it will have Greenpeace on its back! You know those pesky environment people who hinder whaling and that sort of nonsense!

EU environment legislation!! Don't make laugh! Very worthy of course but hardly if ever activated, otherwise what are those trawlers doing being allowed to destroy the sea bed when what they are doing is illegal in a conservation area?!!

From everything I have read, I am optimistic we will stand firm in the trade deals.

It was obvious right from the moment we voted to leave the EU that Brussels would do everything in its power to make things as difficult as it could for us.

It was never going to make it easy, was it? It was (and probably still is) worried that where we went others might follow.

Theresa May maintained that no deal was better than a bad deal and that opinion still holds today.

To give up our fishing waters is the very definition of a bad deal.

I would very much like to see the climate prioritised - and sea birds. One reason why I have at times voted Green and why I chose the subject I studied at university.

I am not saying that I think it’s a bad thing. I am saying you haven’t got a hope in hell of this govt giving a monkeys about the environment. They don’t care about Greenpeace being on their back (& I was a member of Greenpeace for a while).

For starters If they cared about the environment they would be encouraging working from home now (Especially now we can see how many people can work effectively from home) rather than sending everyone into offices to save the profits of commercial landlords.

Brussels isn’t making things difficult - they have been clear from the beginning where their lines were. It’s our government who seem to think that they can have everything (except they don’t - they want no deal and that’s what they’ll get).

So what if others brake international law? That doesn’t make it right.

I agree with OP concerning Thatcher and yes, it’s opening the door further to a lawless government and society. What an appalling example to set to today’s young people, especially if we want them to abide by Covid instructions.

It makes a mockery of decency and democratic government.

So why are they demanding that fishing quotas stay the same? Did they demand the same arrange.ent with Norway? or Canada? or Japan when negotiating trade deals? Did they insist that these countrys.have to be aligned to the EU over state aid? Did they insist that these country's law courts could be over ruled by the ECJ? I think the answer to all these queries is No! We are now an independent sovereign state, why are we treated differently to at other independent state seeking a trade deal?!

arrangement!

EllanVannin

After Churchill, Thatcher was the finest PM we'll ever see in this country ! Does anyone at all match up to her ? NO !

I agree with you Ellen

Jabberwok a brave post re Churchill and I agree with you. My Grandfather, a miner, loathed him

Margaret Thatcher in 2001 on the topic of Europe:

“Kenneth Clarke seems to view with blithe unconcern, the erosion of Britain's sovereignty in Europe," she said, adding that his leadership would put Europe "at the forefront of politics".

And although illness forced Lady Thatcher to step out of the limelight, it did not stop her making her increasingly outspoken views on the EU known.

In her 2002 book, Statecraft, she suggested the European single currency was an attempt to create a "European super state" and would fail "economically, politically and socially".

She called for a "fundamental re-negotiation" of Britain's links with the EU, stopping short of calling for withdrawal but nevertheless suggesting that the UK should pull out of common agricultural, fisheries, foreign and defence policies.
"Most of the problems the world has faced have come from mainland Europe," she wrote. "And the solutions from outside it."

(from the BBC archives)

Thankyou GillT57. Churchill was a brilliant war leader but a good peacetime PM (1951) he was not! My father was killed serving as air crew in Bomber Comand, and I resented not receiving any recognition whatsoever for his, and all those in air crews bravery once the war ended, (not even a mention ) both for my mother for me, for 70 years. To late for her of course, and too little grudgingly given after years of campaigning, for me. I was really just pointing out that despite this admiration for Winston he wasn't quite as noble as some people think! Mrs Thatcher was a much better PM in every way - streets ahead of Winston imo!

Mrs T spot on about Europe, as astute as always! A great lady!

There’s no point banging on about Thatcher etc.

This Twitter thread, largely from Brexiteers sums up the problem with his govt (& explains why you need to be putting blame closer to home than Brussels).

twitter.com/thescepticisle/status/1303788314017890305?s=21

Nezumi65

There’s no point banging on about Thatcher etc.

This Twitter thread, largely from Brexiteers sums up the problem with his govt (& explains why you need to be putting blame closer to home than Brussels).

twitter.com/thescepticisle/status/1303788314017890305?s=21

What a surprising thread, Nezumi. I had to work hard to realise that some tweeters were, indeed, Brexiters.
Where is the anti EU hysteria, the blind support for Johnson, the support for ignoring the rule of law?

Good god, man. The timeline looked very similar to mine

I don't think our Gnet Leavers will like it at all.

Not a single brexiter is willing to discuss whether breaking international law is wrong.

They know it is but are simply not willing to admit that it is wrong.

Johnson has become a person of whom I can no longer listen without total total disbelief and cynicism.

I can’t remember a time when he has opened his mouth and sounded like a prime minister, let alone when he has told the truth.

The latest gem in a a”moonshot” virus testing scheme when there will be millions done every day.

Can’t be done. We know it and he knows it.

Johnson is a big fat liar.

I am contemptuous if liars.

We should all be contemptuous if liars.

But we all aren’t are we?

When you say big fat liar, you mean he tells big fat lies.
Just in case you get accused of “disgusting” personal remarks.

The latest gem in a a”moonshot” virus testing scheme when there will be millions done every day.

With a projected budget of £100 billion. Yes, £100 billion!!

Lots of lovely dosh for Cummings' friends and relations...

mobile.twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1303950689949954048

Lots of pretty diagrams called “moonshot”

But

Bear in mind this is £100 billion - £100 billion! - govt Is preparing to spend on public health project that is ‘devoid of any contribution from scientists, clinicians, and public health and testing and screening experts’

Cadwalladre

I have a theory that Cummings and Gove are sat in the background making up as many mind watering ly expensive and useless schemes as they think they can get away with and feeding it to Johnson, who laps it up and spouts it out to the general public.

Sherelle Jacobs in the Telegraph today (behind a paywall so cut & paste here:

“It is bizarre that No 10 has failed to point out to Remainers the first rule of geopolitical jurisprudence: sovereign will is the ultimate authority in the creation of international law. Ergo international law is only valid to the extent that it does not subordinate the principle of sovereign will. And why are ministers so reluctant to break the news to self-righteous Remainers that in the adult world, breaking trade rules is sometimes part of doing business? The established practice whereby countries break WTO regulations and then compensate affected countries is just one example.

Most exasperating of all is the Tory failure to call out Ursula von der Leyen’s pompous Tweets invoking Pacta sunt servanda (“agreements must be kept”). The EU frequently and shamelessly violates international law, not to defend its sovereignty but to extend its reach and neutralise threats. The EU’s fishing activities in the waters of occupied Western Sahara have violated international law. The EU’s penchant for instructing member states to defy Security Council rulings that threaten its supremacy violates international law. So too its track record for sending migrants back to North Africa and Turkey. Who is really the rogue state, Britain or the EU empire?”