Far left and far right

Of course there isn’t a magic money tree ( ever) and we will all be paying for the help given in the future, tax payer money and massive borrowing.....but it can’t be helped as it’s needed, end of story.

And I like Gisela Stewart with Labour. Mind you she voted for Brexit! I liked her common sense views. Plus I liked John Mann (?) who is now in the HoL - another Labour politician - ooh and Brexiteer.

Yes Grandad1943 I agree with your kind comments. We’ve had many a back & forth discussion but you are always invariably polite.

Always important to play the ball not the man.
?

This government has not acted like a socialist government!!! Anybody who thinks that really doesn't understand the principles of socialism.

Apart from the three million who have been abandoned and the renters who are getting into more debt and will inevitably be evicted when support ends, many thousands of businesses are about to go bankrupt, taking millions of jobs with them.

The "socialist" solution would be to buy up equity in the businesses which could become viable again. The Chancellor has totally ruled that out because Conservatives don't like state ownership. The alternative is massive unemployment. Claiming benefits is about to become a new experience for many, who have never had to rely on benefits before. It's going to be an interesting few years ahead!

I suppose that's why broad brush statements about left and right make me worry. Johnson is a very different kettle of fish to some who served in Thatchers government, however much I might disagree with their policies. I have said this before but Ken Clarkes approach to Europe is closer to my view of Europe than Corbyns for example.

lemon I don't think I said it wasn't just that people believe some of the recipients deserve it and others don't.

Lemongrove funny isn't it that there is a magic money tree now, when there wasn't a trace of one five or ten years ago. Makes you think what could have been done in those ten years if the will was there.

trisher....all who need state help are deserving, and there are so many reasons that some will always need this help for life.Others may need monetary help for only a short while.
The system is there for all of these cases.

Peardrop50, I don't agree with you but you have explained so I understand your point of view.

Alexa, I totally agree. And I have to say, despite loathing Thatcher for what she did to the working classes, she had strength, conviction and LED her party. Boris is being led by Cummings.

Peardrop do you know how difficult it is to abuse the welfare system? Or are you basing your beliefs on TV programmes made to make you believe it's happening everywhere?

It’s laughable, isn’t it Kitty ....some of the views on here are straight from a Marxist handbook circa 1900.
Still, Alexa concedes that some individual Tories are nice people ( despite their ideology)?so it’s not all bad.
As Grandad 1943 has pointed out many times ( although his comments are not liked, strangely) this government has acted throughout like a socialist government, giving so much monetary support to save jobs and help people get through hard times.

MellowYellow sorry to hear of your difficulties, but glad that you are managing with help ( State) these sort of sudden hardships that come out of the blue can floor us all.

I think a lot of people have forgotten that politics isn't football. You don't pick a team and support them regardless.

Actually looking into policy and track record instead of the biased news, they might surprise themselves

Good post peardrop.

kittylester sorry I though you meant my socialists views were old fashioned. Well here's why it isn't old fashioned.
The deserving poor- there are many threads where the right wingers will acknowledge that some degree of support is needed because anyone can slip into needing help (these the Victorians called "the deserving poor")
The Undeserving poor- now they are referred to as benefit scroungers, layabouts or spongers off the state. Some of the same people as the Victorians castigated come into this category- single parents or unmarried mothers for example.
It doesn't matter how much evidence you present to show how most people move off benefits in time, or how hard it is to stay on them Some will still insist there are lots of people out there doing it.
Those aren't old fashioned views they are ones found on GN every day.

Peardrop50

I am proud of the welfare state that helps the needy but acknowledge that there are some who abuse the system this does not make me uncaring.
I am proud that we have a diverse society but acknowledge that our infrastructure is creaking under the strain and needs to be improved to accommodate further immigration this does not make me a racist.
I believe that aspiration should be encouraged, opportunity given and effort rewarded but I am aware that some, through no fault of their own, lack the capability to seize opportunity and need our care and compassion.
I think I'm right of centre, others may call me extreme, it depends how each of us define these terms.
I welcome comment but not mud slinging.

Sounds left of centre to me

I am proud of the welfare state that helps the needy but acknowledge that there are some who abuse the system this does not make me uncaring.
I am proud that we have a diverse society but acknowledge that our infrastructure is creaking under the strain and needs to be improved to accommodate further immigration this does not make me a racist.
I believe that aspiration should be encouraged, opportunity given and effort rewarded but I am aware that some, through no fault of their own, lack the capability to seize opportunity and need our care and compassion.
I think I'm right of centre, others may call me extreme, it depends how each of us define these terms.
I welcome comment but not mud slinging.

Dinahmo

growstuff if you're back. I've pointed out before (as have you) about the 3 million who've fallen through the gap and the response, from grandad has been they could get jobs in the supermarkets and that where there's a will there's a way.

Just shows what a caring and knowledgeable human being he is!

Words fail me and I'm not risking my blood pressure to point how flawed the thinking that this government is "socialist" is.

growstuff if you're back. I've pointed out before (as have you) about the 3 million who've fallen through the gap and the response, from grandad has been they could get jobs in the supermarkets and that where there's a will there's a way.

Would you like to give us some examples of up to date modern views, kittylester?

kittylester

trisher

Aw thank you Gagajo
As far as the right wing caring for the poorest goes I think some are still stuck in the Victorian era and are willing to drop crumbs from the table to the well behaved poor (the deserving) but believe some of the poor don't behave well enough so they shouldn't be supported (the undeserving).

That is an old fashioned view.

It's a perfectly valid view which applies to 'some' as trisher says (and evidenced by opinions voiced on this site from time to time).

People's views don't change greatly over long periods of time. You can find the same diversity (and often just about the same language) in debates of 200 years ago.

Will you all listen to yourselves!

Gagajo, I do believe there are individual Tories who are nice people despite the Tory ideology.

I don't judge people by their politics, I judge them by their behaviour.

I would describe myself as a left leaning moderate.

Is it fair to say that most (not all) of my friends are somewhere on the left?

Is it fair to say that I personally have witnessed more unkindness from right leaning people?

Is it fair to say that most left leaning people I associate do love their country and want it to be the best version of itself?

Its the truth of my experience so there is that.

trisher

Aw thank you Gagajo
As far as the right wing caring for the poorest goes I think some are still stuck in the Victorian era and are willing to drop crumbs from the table to the well behaved poor (the deserving) but believe some of the poor don't behave well enough so they shouldn't be supported (the undeserving).

That is an old fashioned view.

kittylester

Old fashioned views from the left.

What is old fashioned about them, kittylester?

I'd rather have old fashioned views and beliefs that care about people than think it is OK for some people to live in dreadful conditions and go hungry.