Rebecca Long Bailey sacked by Keir Starmer

Wrong question Trisher.
6 million Trades Union Members or the proportion of the 45 million electorate needed to get Labour into power?

What use is it Keir Starmer having the support of the Trades Unions members if the rest of the electorate are alienated because they perceive, rightly or wrongly, that the leader of the party is merely doing the Trades Unions‘ bidding and doesn’t have the interests of ‘the many’ in their view?
(Jenrick’s behaviour is indefensible, and reprehensible, but he isn’t the subject of this thread.)

Ah, now the whataboutery begins....

In reply to Grandad - you have said

"In the foregoing, it is alleged that establishment used the trade union funding received by it to act against an elected party leader even to the extent of working against a victory in a general election."

Have you seen the internal report that was not used as the response to the ECHR investigators and leaked instead, and is this what it alleges?

Who do you mean by "the establishment" - spell it out so we can understand your conspiracy theory!

Conspiracy theories seem to be the order of the day when hard evidence cannot be provided.

Ramblingrose have you not seen the leaked report? It is, or was, widely available. Those who have read it can draw their own conclusions.

Labour is calling for sanctions on Israel and the ban on imported goods from the illegal settlements if it presses ahead with its annexation plans.

Shadow Foreign Secretary

Ramblingrose22 in regard to your post @00:25 today, I was referring to the leaked internal antisemitism report in regard to the alleged actions of staff and others at the Labourer Party Central Office.

As Nightowl has pointed out in her above post, reports on what is contained in that leaked report are widely available and therefore there is no "conspiracy theory" by anybody as you appear to so like to accuse people of.

However, Kier Starmer has very much already brought the findings of the investigation that has been launched into question and possible disrepute by not suspending from their employment those at Labour Central office who are accused of "misdeeds".

janeainsworth Quote [What use is it Keir Starmer having the support of the Trades Unions members if the rest of the electorate are alienated because they perceive, rightly or wrongly, that the leader of the party is merely doing the Trades Unions‘ bidding and doesn’t have the interests of ‘the many’ in their view?] End Quote.

janeainsworth, should it be that Kier Starmer and his supporters do not wish to remain as part of the overall Labour movement of Great Briton, he can always leave that large organisation and set the Parliamentary Labour Party on a totally independent path.

Of course, Starmer would have to solve the funding problem of his party, but undoubtedly he would be able to sell the PLP to the likes of the Bankers and Arms Manufacturers as Tony Blair attempted to carry out.

There are many in the wider Labour movement (myself included) who would be only too happy to wave goodbye to the Labour Party and have all the millions of pounds saved spent on those trade union members who have funded the Labour party for well over one hundred years.

So the choice is for Starmer & Co to make.

Grandad - . If you and your friends want to leave the Labour Party and set up your own Momentum group, please do so. Starmer is the elected leader. You tack has changed from support the leader at all costs since JC left and RLB didn't win.

I thought that bulk of funding for the party these days came from membership fees and donations? I would be very interested to know the exact proportion of overall funding that comes from the unions now.
Obviously the trades union movement has played a significant role in the history of the party, but it is not and never has been the be all and end all. The Labour party is a broad church and the uneasy relationships between the different parts have been there from the start.
It will not be easy for Keir Starmer to unite the party, but he will need to rise above factionalism and look to the future, not the past. In my opinion, as a full member for 50 years, he has made a good start.

Iam64

Grandad - . If you and your friends want to leave the Labour Party and set up your own Momentum group, please do so. Starmer is the elected leader. You tack has changed from support the leader at all costs since JC left and RLB didn't win.

Iam64, as usual you are totally inaccurate in your above post. First of all I am not a member of Momentum and never have been.

Secondly, I believe I have never stated on this forum who I voted for in the Labour Party leadership election.

Finally, I will not be resigning my fifty-three continuous membership of the overall Labour movement in the country, but should it be that the Parliamentary Labour Party wishes to leave that wider movement, so be it.

As stated, I will be happy to wave goodbye to them along with many others I am sure.

Is it possible do you think Grandad, that bearing in mind his intellect and experience that Starmer has a full understanding of the possible consequences of his actions, I suspect he has a fairly extensive understanding of the way the labour party functions.

Galaxy

Is it possible do you think Grandad, that bearing in mind his intellect and experience that Starmer has a full understanding of the possible consequences of his actions, I suspect he has a fairly extensive understanding of the way the labour party functions.

Galaxy, I do believe that Kier Starmer is a person of great intellect. However, I feel he has demonstrated in his first few months as leader that he perhaps has no great perception of a given situation.

The above was demonstrated in the Dominic Cummings crisis when he did not seem to comprehend the extent of the huge public anger and therefore did not make the most of that situation either for his office as Opposition leader or for the Labour Party.

He also had no roots or attachment to the wider Labour movement, but only of that within the Parliamentary Labour Party (PLP). That situation is a large part of the growing division between the PLP and the wider Labour movement.

So, Kier Starmer, great intellect, yes, situation perception and management skills, much to be desired.

Janeainsworth if you think it is the voice of the electorate that is driving this government you are deluded.

Iam64 @ 08.29, yes, I remember the "support the leader at all costs" mantra too! Funny how things have changed isn't it.

Grandad we know that you're not a member of Momentum because you keep telling us, but your allegiances appear to be leaning further and further away from the party that you've supported for 53 years and ever closer to Momentum. Shame that.

Chewbacca the reason Corbyn attracted so many supporters was because he took the Labour party back to its original beliefs and away from the watered down Toryism it had adopted during the Blair years, because if you are going to have two parties which are virtually indistinguishable from each other you aren't going to get people coming out to vote.
Momentum much as some may hate them are closer in beliefs to those of the original Labour Party.

Grandad that is your opinion, many many of us think he is demonstrating good management skills, my opinion of his perception and understanding is very different to yours. I think the problem of the current tribal attitude to issues is that we often surround ourselves with people who think similar to ourselves, and then get a surprise when this isnt reflected in wider society.

Yes electoral success in terms of people voting for him was a massive problem for Blair.

Chewbacca

Iam64 @ 08.29, yes, I remember the "support the leader at all costs" mantra too! Funny how things have changed isn't it.

Grandad we know that you're not a member of Momentum because you keep telling us, but your allegiances appear to be leaning further and further away from the party that you've supported for 53 years and ever closer to Momentum. Shame that.

Iam64, again, as is very usual, you get it entirely wrong in your above post.

I have very often spoken on how Momentum came into being, and on their actions since that event. However, I have not " continuously spoken" on my membership of that body because I have never been a member.

My main allegiance has always been to the Unite Union and its forerunner the great Transport & General Workers Union who gave me so much of my education and career opportunities. With that membership, I have always maintained a great interest in the broader Labour movement in the country. I pay the political levy subscription and will continue to do so for as long as it is decided it is required.

However, my Unite Union Branch has organised an activists WhatsApp group meeting this afternoon which I have been invited to join where it is to be decided if we are to affiliate to the rejuvenated and reorganised "Don't Leave Organise" grouping.

That I hope they will agree to carry out and I shall then very willingly subscribe to that body.

Galaxy look at the numbers of people voting in general elections before and during the Blair years. It fell to the lowest percentage since 1918. Why were almost 50%of the electorate not voting?

That maybe so trisher but the fact that Corbyn couldn't rally enough support to get elected would suggest that he, and Momentum, were/are out of touch with the electorate. If the majority of LP members had wanted to be transported back to the "original Labour Party", they'd have been voted in. But they weren't because the majority didn't want them.

Corbyn looked back to "LP roots"; Starmer is looking forward to the future. Go figure.

Look at who actually won elections and who didnt. Blair secured enough votes to become PM three times in a row. You might not like that but it is a reality.

Janeainsworth if you think it is the voice of the electorate that is driving this government you are deluded

Well thank you for that kind remark, Trisher.
Did I say or even imply that the electorate was ‘driving the government’ (whatever that means)?

It’s simple, the electorate votes for the government of the day.
If Labour wants power, it needs to win the hearts & minds of the electorate, as well as the Trades Unions.
You can accuse Cummings et al of all sorts of conspiracies and manipulation, but that’s what Keir Starmer and the Labour Party sadly have to overcome.

What is this "original Labour Party". I always thought the Fabian Society was quite important myself. Are they being written out of history?

Chewbacca, it is very difficult to win elections when you have many within your own organisation working directly to ensure you will not win that election.

Corbyn also had an unprecedented media campaign ranged against him often based on lies fed to that media from within the right of the Labour Party.

We have witnessed national newspaper journalists openly congratulating themselves in recent weeks as to "what a job they did on Corbyn".

The above is why I feel there has been such a reaction within the Labour movement to the sacking of Rebecca Long-Bailey.

Another situation that Starmer was unable to perceive.

Are all of Corbyn's stalwart supporters so enthralled by him, and all that he believed him, even though he proved to be so unpopular that he reconciled the LP to the back burner and made them unelectable forever? Are they really prepared to turn away from their first real chance of having an electable party in a generation, because KS wants to propel them into the 21st century instead of dragging them to the 1930s?