I am not trying to be controversial, but...........

So; is it hypocritical or not? Is it ok to be antisemitic while demanding better rights for BAME persons ? Doesn't it diminish the argument somewhat?

I've lost the thread here.

A couple of questions questions:

Do people agree that all people (whether black, white, Jewish, Muslim, disabled, male, female, etc etc) should not be discriminated against in the workplace, in education, in the justice system and other critical situations? Or not? And are they denying the evidence that some people are?

Who's Ice Cold?

The chap is called Ice Cube and he is apparently a rapper and actor/director. I admit I really know little about him, however last week he posted a series of tweets which are grossly offensive and antisemitic. I have read them; they are vile. He is apparently hugely influential , again I know little about that as I don't like rap music. the tweets repeat lots of disgusting allegations about Jews , I won't go into all of them , suffice to say Jews are blamed for a huge number of global catastrophes , run the financial world etc. In other words ,more of the same antisemitism.He has been widely criticized but has refused to apologize and from what I can see has defended his position.
The point I am making is that he is, clearly, in favour of BLM ( ok, I am not arguing with that) , he is hugely influential ( ok, I get that) but he is now targeting another minority group and we may now see a further rise in antisemitism . Oh and he seems to say he is backed by god. There was no need for him to stoop so low , he could have posted sensible arguments for black equality , but instead chose to rehash centuries old lies. If black people have been treated badly over the years then so have Jews and probably for longer.
For the record , I am clearly in favour of equality , I do however believe that most ( I stress most) inequality is due to socioeconomic issues .i.e poverty/class which also tends to be a controversial subject. We need more studies/research on poverty/deprivation and more practical solutions , not constant slurs on various ethnic groups and certainly not from those who are capable of greatly influencing others.

It's so dispiriting isn't it, to see the divisions in our society. I didn't know much about Ice Cube, thanks loisloves for the information.
Jewish people have been subjected to systematic abuse and bigotry since the beginning of time. To see someone who is influential in the BLM campaign repeating those same old prejudices is depressing.
The sight of those drunken white thugs attacking the police yesterday confirmed that we are living in an increasingly divided, angry society. Is it me, or did most of them seem to be overweight, aggressive, drunken white men, looking for a fight and they didn't really care who with?

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I just found it very sad, so much power to do something good , but exactly the opposite takes place.

I am sorry to hear what you seem to have read in social media Loislovesstewie but that really isn't an argument against BLM. I have started threads in the past about the issues the Jewish part of our population have to deal with. It needs a separate thread if that is what you want to discuss.

However, this is one person and not really a reason for changing the course of this thread or suggesting that all those who think the BLM issues need to be aired at this moment should view them with this one action in mind.

If the was a large accident and I ran out to help the person to my right while leaving the person to my left it would be ridiculous in the extreme to use my action as a)diminishing what I have done for the person on the right and b)diminishing all the help given at the accident.

One persons difficulties do not diminish another's. People will always be people and some do not behave as we would prefer them to. You only have to see the childish name calling on GN to know that. One persons behaviour does not diminish the cause - or should not. I do not see your attempt to diminish the BLM cause by introducing whataboutery as in any way actually diminishing it. Just because you try to associate the supporters of BLM with what you judge to be hypocrisy - which is always why people introduce "whatabout" arguments - it does not, if we are logical, diminish the arguments surrounding BLM.

If the If there

Is it me, or did most of them seem to be overweight, aggressive, drunken white men, looking for a fight and they didn't really care who with?

Not just you, sadly Iam. There are many ways, I imagine, of feeling dispossessed even if what you have lost should not have been yours in the first place.

What's GGumteenth made up?

I disagree with you Loislovesstewie. Change always takes time - sometimes years or decades.

There are some whose views are so entrenched they will never change, but little by little attitudes in the general public do change and we can affect the direction those changes make now.

The symbol of the Colston statues being thrown in the water will endure. I will always remember the steel band outside St George's Hall in Liverpool and the pictures I've seen of peaceful protesters in my local park. A few people will wake up the mindless thuggery of right-wing mobs and the reason anti-racist protests are needed in the first place.

If change never happened, we'd all still be living under feudal laws (or earlier).

GGumteenth I think that's it in a nutshell.

loislovesstewie I'm interested in reading more about the abuse Jews have suffered/are suffering. I know, for example, that some synagogues and Jewish graveyards have been been vandalised, mainly by far right extremists (where a perpetuator has been found).

I would be interested in any links you have to reputable sites with evidence of systemic discrimination against Jews in education, the workplace or in the justice system.

We need more studies/research on poverty/deprivation and more practical solutions , not constant slurs on various ethnic groups and certainly not from those who are capable of greatly influencing others.

We've had the studies and we know about the inequality is based on racial and cultural prejudice. At some point action has to be taken not more studies.

I am certainly NOT arguing against BLM, I don't know where you get that idea. I have merely pointed out that someone who is very influential has decided to make antisemitic posts , He hasn't done his cause any good by the rants which he has posted, they are defamatory and will certainly have done him PERSONALLY no good. and that he could personally either do a lot of god or stoke up other fires. i.e antisemitism .You only have to look at the measured responses to his posts to see that .
Neither do I see it my comments as 'whataboutery', if you can't se that antisemitism is part of the same problem. i.e people from minorities being abused then I do despair .

These are a few studies ;
antisemitic incidents - Community Security Trust
The Campaign against Antisemitism has a huge amount on incidents that have taken place of that nature .
This article in the New Statesman
“They did a Nazi salute”: How anti-Semitism is rising in Britain.
Sorry can't do the links but there are lots of studies on these sites.
And finally;
We need studies about why things happen not just that they are happening.
Further up-thread a comment was made about more black women dying in childbirth than white women. If you look at the why's there all sorts of reasons .Yes, some may be based on racism but there are other reasons too. For example , more black women get pre-eclampsia that white women, why is that ? A further comment was made that black women perceive that they have to be strong so don't complain. If you read the whole article there are many questions to be answered , sorry I know I have digressed so I will shut up now.

So how about discussing what happens to black people in this country. We have discussed it at length over the years and can do again but it is not what this thread is about. You cannot pour enough of your own preconceived ideas over this thread to stop BLM being what people want to talk about.

I will agree that studies help but we have enough to know things we could be starting to change - education in schools would make a change that would last for decades and possibly more. I wait for this government to put that in place.

Here is your link Loislovesstewie from last December when I could almost guarantee it was discussed.

We have discussed it
We have discussed anti-semitism

Loislovesstewie I was hoping for some links to unpartisan, unbiased links, maybe government statistics or from an unbiased source.

I'm still looking for evidence that there is systemic discrimination against Jews in the workplace, in education or the judicial system. It wouldn't surprise me if it exists, but I'd like to read the evidence for myself.

I doubt very much if the thugs who made Nazi salutes did it because they're anti-semitic. They did it because they're as thick as mince and know FA about history. The irony, of course, is that they claim to defend history. Doh!

Nazi salutes are a symbol of militarism and the kind of ideology they support.

I believe some of them call themselves the English Football Democratic Lads (or some such nonsense). I doubt very much if they even know how to look up "democracy" in a dictionary.

I am very confused. Who is Ice Cold? Google hasn't thrown up anybody. I can find a song called "Ice Cold" by somebody called David Guetta, who is a white French Jewish DJ and songwriter. Is it him?

Sorry! Forget that! Ice Cube ... back to my research.

Aha! Found out about Ice Cube and, no, I do condemn what he's written. His Wiki entry suggest he's been making anti-semitic comments for some time. I don't support that kind of thing at all and it would appear that some of his fans have turned against him.

However, it doesn't negate the discrimination that blacks and others experience.

About time that everyone accepted the fact that there are good and bad in all races black and white no exception so we'll just have to live with it and take further media reports with a good pinch of salt as they're making millions in dividing the country, just for their own ends---sensationalism sells !