Unforgivable

The 75 year old gentleman who this thread is about is alive and alert but does have brain damage and will need Physiotherapy
www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/75-year-old-buffalo-protester-hospitalized-after-cop-shove-suffered-brain-injury-lawyer/2457512/

I lived in Brixton, just off Railton Road, one of the hotspots, during the 1981 riots. Before the first riot I had noticed the arrogant attitude of some of the younger police officers whilst they were out and about. I was also aware of the sus laws. However, what I did not know was that a few days before the riot plain clothes policemen were sent into Brixton and over 5 days there were nearly 1000 people stopped and searched.

Several buildings in Railton Road were destroyed by fire but that probably did the owners a favour because many of them were condemned and needed to be pulled down anyway. One memory is of the staff of a Chinese restaurant who came out side carrying their knives in order to protect their building, which they did.

In the following days there were several "bobbies" on the beat. Not young ones, more 30 somethings. They didn't wear their jackets but did wear their helmets. They were welcomed by all the local residents, not just the white people.

Since then I've always thought that there should be more visible policing but I guess that's a forlorn hope, given the reduction in numbers over the last 10 years or so.

Finally I think that the officers in charge in London and Bristol gave the right orders regarding policing of the demonstrations.

Desiderata.

1. The good politicians need to pay a lot of money to public relations experts who groom them for public appeal.

2. Large fee paying schools should be closed down because by their very nature they teach young minds the myth of the superior social class.

3. Tertiary education should free at point of use and available to all.

The DM on line today has a video of white men with banners supporting Trump, acting out the murder of George Floyd, one man lies on the floor face down, another kneels on his neck -obviously without the pressure that killed Floyd. My technical skills are hopeless or I'd put a link on.
It's absolutely nauseating to see. Terrifying to imagine Trump could be elected again. His malign influence isn't just destroying America, it's spreading to other countries.

Unfortunately Varian I think President Trump will be elected for a second term, USA is an extremely divided Country.

I think we all know that there are some utterly dreadful people in America, but it is just shocking that there are so many of them that this monster could even be re-elected.

Varian I spent an awful half an hour last night reading posts on a Trump page on FB. Yes, I know, I shouldn't have, but it made me fearful, sick, angry and I wouldn't recommend it. There are posts stating as fact, that George Floyd is alive an actually attended his own funeral, that the old man who was knocked to the ground faked the whole thing, even to posts describing how the fake blood was spread ( this from a person claiming to be an ex US army medic), that he was trying to block the police radios with a device and so deserved to be knocked down......it was truly, truly disgusting and made me realise just how Trump got where he is and why he will probably get back in.

Trump Falsely Targets Buffalo Protester, 75, as ‘Antifa Provocateur’

The president attacked Martin Gugino even as the activist was in the hospital recovering from a head wound sustained when the police shoved him to the ground.

www.nytimes.com/2020/06/09/nyregion/who-is-martin-gugino-buffalo-police.html

Just going back to the miners' strike. I knew many of the police in the northern part of the country and they were wholeheartedly behind the miners.
They made their feelings known and were given hot drinks and snacks by the miners' wives as they were on duty for 16 hours a day.
They were there to keep the peace but I think as more police were drafted in things became more violent on both sides.
Not all had sympathy for the miners.

NotSpaghetti, you didn't upset me, though the violence dished out to our police (and their horses) yesterday has upset me. We are three months into the most difficult period most of us have lived through. I'm sure we've all lived through very difficult personal circumstances by now but there will have been some escapes, we could go away for a week, drive to the coast, go to the theatre/cinema, or best of all, hug our loved ones to sustain us during those personally tough times. This is different, we are all living under the continued stress that this virus is here and likely to stay for a good while.
So, the scenes in London yesterday felt even worse than they usually would have done. Police officers attempting to maintain public order during these dangerous times, no PPE of course it would be impossible, and facing missiles directed straight at them.

Firstly, I'd like to apologise if I implied all police are arrogant or inhumane. This most definitely is not what I think. I have known police personally who have been really great people who I would totally trust.

Iam64 - the agressive policing of the miners strike, I have read, was politically motivated and had direction from the central government (Margaret Thatcher's government of course). I think your father's colleagues are right, and what a horrible thing to happen right at the end of your father's career.

As we aim to police by consent here in the UK I know we train our police in de-escalation. This is something that America needs to learn I feel. As I said earlier, most of the USA uses the "warrior police" system which is bound to make everyone more tense and hostile. I also heard recently that some forces in America have only six weeks training - which seems totally ridiculous to me.

And I agree thuggery towards the police here was, and is, totally unnecessary and doesn't do the cause any favours. This would, almost certainly have been shooting incidents in America.

I am not trying to belittle the good work many police do in the UK, I just (mistakenly) thought that AGAA4 was implying we had no examples of police abuses here. Sorry to anyone I've upset.

NotSpaghetti. I was replying to a previous poster who was talking about incidences of police abuse on facebook. I don't trust Facebook to get the facts right.

I didn't say that there was no abuse by British Police. I did say you always get bad people in most jobs but this current abuse was in the USA, where I believe racism is rife in many walks of life.

NotSpaghetti, the actions of some police officers during the miners strike left a terrible legacy in public-police relations. My father joined the police in 1949 and retired in 1983. His funeral 15 years later was attended by many former colleagues. I was chatting with three who had joined around the same time as dad and one of them mentioned the miners strike. He talked about the damage caused to relationships between the police and communities and said "it's going to take two or three generations to repair that damage". We're north west with (former) mining communities. Older officers were disgusted that men from the Met were shipped in, who waved their overtime slips at the striking miners.
Sorry that detracts from the OP. Yes, I watched the video, yes its disgusting on so many levels. Despite the public order problems, thuggery and violence shown towards the police by some in London yesterday, restraint seems to have continued to be shown by officers. The police by consent training is significant, as is the fact our police don't routinely carry guns

Sorry Dinahmo - had intended to comment yesterday. I see you are ahead of me.

The miners strike comes to mind.
Someone died at the G-20 protests (?2010?). And who of our generation could forget Blair Peach?

AGAA4 I think the police over here are not as bad as they are in general in the USA but we are not without similar abuses here. And there is evidence.
Have you googled "British police abuses" ever?
(Not challenging, just asking)..

Such things have happened here to, although it is not so frequent.

Back in 2009 a newspaper vendor died after being struck by a constable at a demo in London. At the first inquest the jury returned a verdict of unlawful killing. The officer was charged with manslaughter and found not guilty but dismissed from the police force. The first autopsy concluded that the man had died of an heart attack.

After the post mortem a video filmed by an American tourist came to light which showed the constable hitting the victim with his baton. The victim, who was merely on his way home and not taking part in the demonstration got up but collapsed and died soon afterwards.

Subsequent post mortem showed that he'd died following blunt force trauma in association with cirrhosis of the liver.
The manslaughter charge failed because of the differing pathology reports.

Another example is Blair Peach, a New Zealander who attended an anti NF demo in 1979. He died of head injuries. 14 witnesses said they'd seen him being by the police. No charges were ever brought but a report made shortly after by a Met Commander, but finally released in 2010, concluded that Peach was likely to have been killed by one of six riot police officers.

Our police are nowhere near as bad as those in America but do occasionally misuse their authority.

Banks comment

Are we totally surprised when the US is led by a buffoon?

It's not right to make claims against the British police without proof. There are a few bad apples but it seems that in the USA there are a whole barrow load.

Having a President like Trump doesn't help. Can't believe what he said about George Forman.

Don’t believe everything you read on FB. I’m not saying our police are perfect, but they rarely act the way these thugs do in America and it’s usually one random individual. They are probably still institutionally racist but at least the have the sense not to act out thuggery en masse.

My nephew lives in Buffalo with his family. It doesn’t surprise me that this happened there. They think the sun shines out of Trump’s nether regions and he can do no wrong.

It's not only US police brutality. I have just read BBC reports of British police rape , lethal restraints, and lifelong spinal and brain injuries caused by police officers in their vans and cells against black people. More worrying is the officers responsible seems not to have been brought to justice or if they have they have been let off.

I read these BBC reports on my grandson's page on Facebook but don't know how to copy them to here.

Trump has been a bully all his life, even as a schoolboy he beat up a teacher, and his attitude is now being reflected in much of society. It is very concerning and will get worse if, as seems likely, he wins the November election. This coupled with the fact that the unions seem to protect the police from any scrutiny or disciplinary action makes me concerned for friends over there..

Disgraceful behaviour. It's not as if the policeman didn't see he was a man of more mature years.

However I'm hopeful they had their bodycams on so we can see what the altercation was about

The gentlemen clearly approached the police and at one point appeared to be wiping something on the pushing Policeman's sleeve

Was it a phone?

Why was he doing that?

But that aside his actions were totally unnecessary and to think the poor gentleman is seriously ill in hospital is very sad.

jacq10

Exactly what we were told over 35 years ago when we visited our daughter who was working in LA for a year.