Keir Starmer’s patience has finally run out.

Experiencial learning is perfectly valid and I think that this is what people think they base their opinions on Furret but you need to understand the limits of your experience or you may still reach the wrong conclusion. I think the thing I find most difficult is the entrenched feelings of others. Surely we will never learn unless we are prepared to say - but you may know more, explain, tell me.

The problem with any group being so entrenched is that anyone wishing to discuss something ends up feeling they are becoming equally but oppositely entrenched just to try and get a point across to someone who hits the ceiling if you disagree with their view. It's why I leave from time to time as I feel I am being bounced into being someone I am not. This is my "umpteenth" time of return, as my "new" name says and I fear it may be my last. Trying to explain is exhausting - talking in real life to those who tread as carefully on my feelings as I would wish to tread on theirs is not.

That was for Furret

Dinah if everybody put IMHO all the time in every post where it’s an opinion it would make for very tedious reading.
Joelsnan am afraid we just have to accept ( on GN) that all those who voted to remain in the EU are wonderful in every way.

That isn't funny LG. It is a pointlessly nasty comment. Why?

FFS GG when will you understand that we don’t like to be lectured or spoken down to.

I ‘need to understand the limits of [my] experience’ you say. Really?

That says it all about your attitude to other people. I am well aware of my limited experience in some areas and I’m equally aware of my vast experience in others. These you know nothing about and that’s how I prefer it.

I’m pretty sure that the other posters are just like me.

Try for a little humility and emotional intelligence and you will find it helps. Listen to others and if you disagree try to do so amicably. We all sometimes get it wrong and react too strongly but then we can always say sorry.

Actually lemon as one completely on the other side of the political fence that made me laugh! In a nice way!

...to clarify...a remainer.

Posters tend to object more if they disagree with the manner and tone of someone's presentation of a view than with the actual content of that view. Some people are in the habit of implying that those with a different opinion either know far less about the subject than their own expert knowledge, or are too stupid even to begin to understand the subtleties when they are explained to them again. That doesn't make others likely to shift their view to join them.

I did not say need to understand the limits of [my] experience you completely changed that into a blatant misquote by adding a word that was nowhere intimated Furret.

You then go on to personally attack me. Why? You attempted to point out the flaws in Dinah's post - oh, yes, it's okay for you to do it but when I pointed to the flaws in your argument in a completely none personal manner I get the fishwife treatment including being sworn at. One rule for you it appears and another for everyone else.

Joelsnan Hours of reading the posts on here, listening to the radio and watching interviews on tv. I have often thought of doing a survey of the fact providers and the opinion givers but life's too short and I'm busy with more important things.

Well, Elegran, if I am reading your post correctly what you imply is that some people are very thin-skinned and extremely quick to take the impersonal personally assuming a great deal that isn't in a post - although I may have misunderstood you of course.

But isn't it interesting that these very same people feel it's their right to be directly abusive to others?

Furret Instinct.

Lemongrove If you find it tedious to read 4 additional letters, then so be it.

[Johnson] sometimes gets things wrong (though I give him credit for bouncing back from the virus and ICU)

Seriously??

When his well-publicised careless attitude, as well as lack of decisive action, may well have led to illness and death for others, as well as his own illness?

It seems some GNetters are too insecure to discuss so can only do so if they can add a post attacking anyone who doesn't agree with exactly what they said. Noticeably they also try to diminish what - their own insecurity - by name-calling and rather nasty descriptions of others personalities.

Why is that okay?

Furrett I should have added flight or fight.

FarNorth I do give Johnson credit for getting back to work so soon after his serious illness.Not sure that he should have done so mind you.
For those who will never accept that he does anything at all right of course, then they will no doubt disagree with me on this.Hey ho.

Dinah I think most people would find those four letters tedious if they were in every other post.
We will have to accept, that unless it’s a verified fact they are printing, then it’s the opinion of the poster who writes it.

Reading your post of 11.59, GGumteenth, I kept thinking of Dominic Cummings. I wonder why: being talked down to as a mere mortal, perhaps?

I've now viewed yesterday's PMQs.
If Johnson is as 'in control' as he claims, he ought to be able to give clear answers to the questions he is asked.
Instead he blusters and complains that KS does not have a positive attitude.

Positive attitude, on the government's part, needs to result in decisive, effective action and I don't believe this is happening.

Scotland, NI and Wales all eased lockdown regulations at the same time

By the way, these countries did not ease lockdown in the same ways as England did.
England is out of step with the rest of the UK because of Johnson's decision to pre-record an announcement of changes without any consultation with the other countries' leaders, or even with Mayors in his own country.

I view the 'be positive' message in the same way as as I view be kind, it really means shut up, I dont want you to express a view.

I wasn't talking down to anyone as it was anyone I was talking to grumppa. You is plural as well as singular you know.

Actually, and factually we are all mortal - aren't we? I must admit I find it a shame if anyone considers themselves "mere". How sad. We are all equal surely?

If that’s an apology then I accept it. I can’t use the plural ‘we’ (even though you indicate you were using the plural form of ‘you’) because I can’t answer for anyone else.

You can do what you like - swearing seems to be popular with you Furret.

It seems you took something personally even though it wasn't written in that way but in exactly the same vein as when you showed the limits of Dinah's argument. If you are being pedantic then maybe I could have written "one" or "anyone using it" or whatever but as I had not set out to offend merely to talk about forms of argument as you had, it didn't occur to me that anyone would be so thin-skinned. I do not see there is anything to apologise for except, perhaps an apology from you for the attacks and swearing directed at me but I have grown used to that from some on GN so it really is already yesterday's news.