Well done Lawrence Fox!

GG13 - this insistence on using one form of racism to excuse another which is much more widespread, is just not helpful.

I don't think a single person on GN and 99.999 % of the population would agree that what happened in Rotherham was not 100% wrong and should never happen. Very different situation though- not comparable.

Exactly. I'd agree that until very recently, the UK was the most tolerant and open of countries, and so accepting of its multiculturalism where it was seen, apparently, as a positive.

And I know, I am sure- that some here will deny it strongly- the UK has changed hugely in the last few years- and repressed, underlying racism and resentment has come gushing to the surface, in some circles and in some areas, in a very disturbing way. I wonder why some people are so keen to dismiss racism- is it because they are, or ???

Racism exists in Rotherham, no one wanted to rock the boat so they just let the Pakistani Muslim rape gangs continue to abuse and rape white girls.

How many more young white girls are to be sacrificed because the establishment is to frightened to call it what it is - racism against white girls.

He didn’t pretend it doesn’t exist did he

He didn't, no; but his argument against the treatment of M&H being racist was that this is a lovely country. Well yes, it is; but that doesn't mean that Meghan hasn't suffered from racism. It's a non sequitur.

I can't remember his exact words but it was something along the lines of needing to deal with real existing racism rather than keep looking for it where it doesn't exist.

I agree with that.

He didn’t pretend it doesn’t exist did he

Have you ever experienced racism? I have not, never.

Many in our family have, growing in Apartheid South Africa, and then when they came to UK to escape, in the late 40s. Unless you have experience the reality of racism in person - you will never ever know what it feels like. Lawrence Fox has not got a clue - I like him as an actor- but I was really disappointed to see his arrogant, entitled and unpleasant reaction. Will never see him the same again.

Some people seem just toooooo keen to say 'oh no, it can't possibly have anything to do with racism' - to be genuine. You can hear the 'I am not racist but ... ' in the background.

If you are a member of a dominant group, of which wealthy white males are at the top, you don't assume you know what a person of colour experiences.

SUCH common sense. Twist it all you want, but a racist apologist is working within the same systems of power as a rape apologist.

You can either work towards stamping out bigotry or you can pretend it doesn't exist, which is the same thing as enabling it.

‘It is not for anyone white to define what a person of colour defines as racism. Just as it is not for a man to define what a woman defines as sexism, or a heterosexual person to define what is homophobia.’

It is not for a person of colour to define what a white person defines as racism. Just as it is not for a woman to define what a man defines as sexism, or a homosexual person to define what is heterophobia.

Can you see how silly these can get? Who gets to decide the ‘isms’?

Thanks Gagajo One of the things that really worries me is that LF who is at best an over rated and over privileged actor is saying things that will be taken up by others and used. Here in the NE there is an upsurge of the far-right and he is consciously or unconsciously feeding those views.

LF most certainly was the victim of a racist attack, I disagree maddyone. He was accused of not knowing how it felt to be the victim of racial abuse, a totally different thing altogether. It is highly unlikely, as the audience member tried to point out over his shouting and showing off, that he had ever been the victim of racism because he is a white, middle class male. He lost the plot and was rude, and all his bluster about this being a wonderful country with no racists must have been a great comfort to Baroness Doreen Lawrence.

Trisher fan club here.

Definitely. Cultural standards and expectations too. If you get caught reading you're a wimp or pathetic. Much better to engage in macho banter and be loud around (unimpressed) girls.

As I see there is quite a bit of inaccuracy in posters recollection of the exchange, I thought it helpful to see the transcript:

Full exchange: Rachel Boyle v Laurence Fox

Rachel Boyle: 'The problem we've got with this is that Meghan has agreed to be Harry's wife and then the Press have torn her to pieces. Let's be really clear about what this is – let's call it by its name, it's racism, she's a black woman and she has been torn to pieces.'

Laurence Fox: 'It's not racism, you can't just...'

RB: 'She has been torn to pieces.'

LF: 'It's not racism.'

RB: 'It absolutely is.'

LF: 'No it's not, we're the most tolerant, lovely country in Europe.'

RB: 'Says a white privileged man.'

LF: 'It's not racism.

RB: 'Says a white privileged man.'

LF: 'Oh God. It's so easy to throw the charge of racism at everybody and it's really starting to get boring.

RB: 'What worries me about your comment is you are a white privileged male who has no experience in this.

LF: 'I can't help what I am, I was born like this, it's an immutable characteristic, so to call me a white privileged male is to be racist - you're being racist.'

I will say that there are substantial numbers of white boys who are suffering massively and underacheiving dramatically in schools now. But that's nothing to do with racism it is to do with deprivation and poverty something LF knows nowt about.

He went to Harrow. Fees almost £14000 per term. Plus a £3000 deposit. How many middle class people can afford that?

Thanks Trisher! So much more succinct than me!

Glad there are a few on here that understand structural racism.

It is not for anyone white to define what a person of colour defines as racism. Just as it is not for a man to define what a woman defines as sexism, or a heterosexual person to define what is homophobia.

These systems of oppression are incredibly nuanced and complex. The lines of discussion are opened by a willingness to listen to the oppressed/minority person and closed down when the member of the dominant group speaks over them. As Lawrence Fox did.

But there are quite a few members of this site who are not interested in opening discussion/listening to minority viewpoints and instead force their own privileged agenda. Not for nothing is it called white privilege.

Lawrence Fox went to public school, he is from a middle class
family ,if it was a man with a dai cap and a terrier ,speaking with an accent all would be above criticism.

I don't know much about Fox but I agree with how he spoke and the woman who referred to his white colour is a racist Anyone who refers to a persons colour, black, brown, yellow or white and uses to it make a point or decision based on their colour is racist.

Its always been ok for people of colour to use the race card but god help you if you are white and use it. Megan is a prime example.

LF was criticised/disagreed with not attacked - get a sense of proportion

Is LF white? -yes Is LF privileged? -yes. So where is the abuse? Was he harmed or injured by what was said?

The murder of Stephen Lawrence most certainly was racist and in common with all murders, it was a terrible event.

I think maddy that in terms of being a victim of a racist attack, SL might be more of an example than LF. Hyperbole or what?

I did not see the show in question with Lawrence Fox and right or wrong once again it is bringing us back again to the question of racism. Perhaps the H & M saga has brought all this up and if we are led to believe as how can we be totally certain that Meghan has said that the Royal family have been racist to her and if so I would like to know what has been said.
I believe Harry is sensitive to Meghans cultural roots and he is completely aware that he is now different to other members of the Royal family he is out on a limb because he now has a biracial marriage/family to work on and it is not the same as two people of same backgrounds but he can succeed in his marriage and contrary to everything said he is in love and what do they always say LOVE IS BLIND and I not going to admit my mistakes on GN but it's true love is blind. Somehow I hope they can work it out.

As for racism I have read from many posts on this thread that some of you are saying that you do think differently when addressing your black neighbours and quoting Dinahmo she had been wondering if she was being racist when walking down her road and she was unsure if she should say Hello to mixed race black teenagers. I perhaps wonder if she felt intimidated. I myself say Hello to anyone be it white, mixed race or black it does not bother me I do not see colour I see people.
Also KatyK your posts are so true as I am from Irish immigrant parents although as young children we were fortunate enough that we had no racial abuse targeted to us probably as my mothers family were so large and always stuck close together. Once I got a bit older I heard about the signs that were put in properties saying No Irish No blacks No Dogs it did not bother me too much that just showed the height of ignorance. I did not like it when in a queue somewhere and somebody would be condemning the dirty Irish for something or the other my blood would boil and even though I had been born on British soil and was British
I would hate some of those dirty full blooded English in that moment.
So this is getting long so just to point out about racism look what Martin Luther King tried to do to help the cause but in a peaceful way he was shot for all his good intentions.
One thing that still haunts me in this country is the murder of Stephen Lawrence by White supremist youths that thought they had the right to take that 18 year old boys life from him, such shame the way the police force handled that murder although praise to them because they finally locked up those scum. I hold his mother Baroness Doreen Lawrence in high esteem she has suffered the loss of her son but battled on she is a strong black woman she probably has contempt for some white people all I can say is she should never have had her son taken from her and God Bless her. sorry for the rant and going off piste.

I wonder why certain people get stopped and searched. According to Trevor Phillips it’s because the people who are stopped are the ones most likely to be carrying weapons. The stats back that up.