Labour Party Conference - chaos reigns.

Limiting the number from private schools who want to go to university.

This is so wrong

actually makes sense to me.

A child is sent to private school, works hard, passes his/her exams but is banned from going to university and you agree
jura ?

because it is about improving chances for kids who have not benefited from a 'better' education and highly intensive exam preparation and coaching, which result in Higher A'Grades for those in the private system.

For another thread perhaps?
But no-one is 'banned' from going to Uni- just not selected for a particular Uni or course, in this particular year. A great opportunity to take a year out and grow up, get some experience and maturity, etc.

I was 29 when I went to Uni - I am currently sponsoring an ex-student starting Uni tomorrow, who is 47.

If a child in a state school has coaching and gets their grades they go on to university but a child in a private school must be banned ? Brutal

jura stopping a percentage of children from private schools going to university was discussed at the conference today

I was educated privately, had to we lived in HK, no choice.
My children went through the state system, had to, no money.
They have done really well. I know that was then and this is now but all my nieces and nephews, a lot younger than my children have thrived.
A lot of public schools attract money in from abroad, I’m not sure if this helps the treasurer but it could help intercontinental relations?
We can have both systems. We need more teachers and need to support them more. We need the government to stop interfering and changing the system every 5 minutes.

coaching is one thing - having to share a large class of 30+ including a variety of special needs and very challenging behaviour, is another. Children in Private Education are given huge advantages, in 100s of ways - so it is right to try and redress the balance when it comes to limted places.

And it has serious research behind it - which indicates that youngsters with lower grades achieved in State Ed, often have much higher potential in Higher Ed, for all sorts of reasons- so again, it is not about limiting places for privately educated students, but about redressing the balance to reflect the above.
Makes sense.

And so does stopping the ridiculous Charity Status for private schools, which currently makes NO sense at all.

Wasn't there a research study that found that, out of state educated and privately educated children who entered university with the same A level grades, the state educated children got the better degrees? Privately educated children coached in exam passing techniques but less able to cope with the independent study needed at university...

What I have always found strange is that state schools are charged VAT and pay business rates when private schools are exempted by claiming charitable status. They're businesses, for heavens sake...

I loosely agree with the LP arguments regarding private education, but think there's something rather draconian about abolishing private schools, although in many ways I find them elitist, but it's about choice and personal freedoms. I don't know quite how those in the higher echelons of the party would square their own use of the private sector with their party's raison d'etre in the matter. To my mind you can't be a socialist and send your own children private, it's not egalitarian, if you believe in a level playing field then include your own children in that concept. One or the other, if you use the private sector, don't call yourself a socialist

Margaret Thatcher - state school

John Major. - state school

Gordon Brown. state school

Tony Blair. private school

David Cameron. Private school

Boris Johnson. Private school

MaizieD I seem to remember that research as well. It makes sense that learning how to pass exams is a different skill from conducting independent research.

Terribull- do you also apply that to Health Treatment? (did you read my previous post re Dianne Abbott?)

I've been chuckling all day at the increasingly ambitious promises they're making; if they ever get elected. Menopausal women getting flexible working hours? How does that square with equality? Bin school OFSTED inspections. And replace them with what? When? How? Now he wants to "redistribute" private schools assets. He's off on a tangent but still not pinning his colours to either mast regarding Brexit.

A small number of private schools are well known and patronised by the rich and famous. Most private schools are not well known names and when someone says where they went nobody can tell whether it is a private or state school unless they come from the same town.

Both our children went to private secondary schools, the names of the schools are generally unrecognised. They got a good education there, but as for the possibility that because the school was a private one, it gave them any leverage, influence or contacts after they left - the answer is none at all.

Since both went on to get good degrees and one a PhD, followed by an academic career, where he is recognised internationally as an expert in his field, hardly suggests that he only got into university because he was well coached at school.

^ hardly suggests that he only got into university because he was well coached at school^

You disappoint me, MOnica. You're not in the habit of taking generalised research results personally. There are always outliers.

Okay jura, I'm going to come over all Shami Chakrabarti now and say, yes we have private medical insurance, taken out and paid for by my husband, so nothing to do with me well not a conscious decision on my part. A bit like Shami after being questioned about her son's private education, "it was my husband's decision" Although I'd be thoroughly disingenuous if I said I wouldn't appreciate having it if ever I had to have an elective surgical procedure, I've only ever used it thus far to consult an endocrinologist. I take your point though an analogy can be drawn from that and private education. However, I never said I agreed with abolition of private schools, my point was I don't think one can be a socialist and endorse a superior education system for their own offspring. However, I don't regard myself as a socialist or subscribe to much of what the Labour Party advocates, certainly not the one we have at the moment, but as with all political parties there may always be something or other in their policies that resonates.

Yes, disappointed too Monica. Of course I never ever said or implied that at all- but made a comment about the general situation and well-known research and stats.

Terribull : 'my point was I don't think one can be a socialist and endorse a superior education system for their own offspring.'

I totally understand your comment- which is why we chose to send our ow kids to the local schools. But we were lucky to have good catchment areas, and at a time when State Ed was better supported. However- if someone believed that the bad state of their local school, the large unsupported class sizes, with an increasing number of unsupported 'difficult' students, the inability of Head, teachers and Governors to deal with bullying, etc, etc . is caused by a Party you do NOT subscribe to- and that you have no ability to control - do you sacrifice your own kid? Or do you say 'it is WRONG, I should not have to do this, and will fight with all my might to redress that situation - but in the meantime, I'll ensure my kid is not punished for my principles. Hard but I get it- totally.

WRT private healthcare (which I don't have), it could be argued that people paying for private healthcare are removing part of the burden on the NHS and thereby helping the general population.

I hate this double speak on private health/education etc. If it’s good enough for your children then it’s good enough for all children. If state education/health is good enough for everyone else why isn’t it good enough for you?

I hate lib/lab devotees who say one thing and do another- at least the tories are happy to own their choices.

I think that most private schools give children a very good education, but when people talk about circles of influence and old boy networks that only applies to a very small group of schools, where the schools merely reflect the inner circles of support and connections that already exist between the families of the children that attend them.

The vast majority of private schools offer no access to inner circles, people of influence. Indeed the scions of the top schools that get into the news because of the successful careers of their old boys, see the ordinary provincial private schools as being on a par with state schools.

Maizie I was not generalising from a sample of one. I was using my family experience as an example, of my broader point based on broader evidence. My broad conclusions are on most private schools. Many of the pupils of private schools are every bit as bright as children at state schools and most of these schools offer bursaries and scholarships to exceptionally bright children whose parents could not otherwise pay the fees.

I think on the margins yes, the quality of private education will get children into universities they wouldn't otherwise have got into (Russell Group) or into university at all. But the suggestion that privately educated children are on average less bright than state educated children is ridiculous.

Look I don't condemn anyone for sending their child to a private school, especially if, as you say, the child was being bullied. I would not want to live in a society that imposes draconian measures such as the banning of independent schools, in a perfect world all schools would be equally good but unfortunately we don't live in a utopia. Our social circle is mixed, most used the state system, we do however know people who have been schooled in the private system for generations and could never imagine ever using the state system but incongruously still regard themselves as socialists, indeed one even made the disparaging remark, when all our kids were about to embark on their first school experience "if you send them to a state school they'll be lucky if they learn to write their own name" Pissed me off for many years!

not quite sure if you have read my posts Pantglas2 - as the point I was making is that it is NOT good enough at all for everyone- and that every effort should be made to change the systems so it is, both education and health. But that, in the meantime, you are not going to watch your child go untreated or worse, and will not sacrifice their future chances for your principles. If you then say 'ahaha no need to improve schools as my kid is out of there' then it is damnable, I agree.

If and when Brexit without a Deal causes shortages of medicines- would you refuse to pay privately for your grandchild's essential medicine- if it would keep him/her safe- whilst at the same time saying 'this is WRONG- and I will fight/vote to ensure all children can get their essential meds- but in the meantime, I'll do what I have to do?