Labour anti-semitism

lemon I could of course list all the incidents of anti-semitism and Islamophobia which are numerous. But I think we have had enough if such unpleasantness.

But rest assured the Tory party is just as unpleasant or even more so imo as many on here claim labour is.

If you wish I can give you many instances, but I’m not sure where that gets us

It’s not simply ‘on here’ that people are disgusted with the amount of antisemitism within the LP, and it’s not simply ‘claiming’ either! It’s clear just how uncomfortable you are with this subject.

Are there levels of racism ?

Well thank you Fennel
Whitewavemark2
trisher

To maddyone and lemongrove Didn't you read all of the artical I posted? Doesn't it set the record straight? And doesn't it make you think? All the newspapers have an agenda to stop a socialist Labour government gaining power they write to smear a propaganda campaign against Labour and Jeremy Corbyn. It is lies there is hardly any anti semitism in the Labour Party. Now if you want to believe the lies more fool you.

As for Margaret Hodge et al I think she is a nasty woman. She did nothing about child abuse as a councillor ignored it. Her firm makes millions and gets away with paying very little tax that's why she doesn't like Corbyn and doesn't want a socialist government. It's not about what your politics are it's about the truth. That's all I have to say I don't get into arguments but what's right is right.

Grany , WW

When it comes to the denial, conspiracy theorists I think the words taken from Labour Shadow Cabinet Minister Barry Gardiner during a Parliamentary Debate on antisemitism are quite apt:-

' Let me be clear that anyone who denies the reality of antisemitism on the left, anyone who thinks that antisemitism is a legitimate part of criticising the political actions of the Israeli Government and anyone who says that complaints about antisemitism are smears on our party is wrong. They do not have the endorsement of the Labour party, they do not have the endorsement of its leader and they need to take a long, hard look at themselves. They have adopted what Bebel labelled the “socialism of fools.”

Yes agree there is some anti semitism in the Labour Party which will not be tolerated however as the article makes very clear there is very little more in society as a whole and more in the Tory Party though as I said with the Bias media you hardly ever hear about that.

Margaret Hodge was a councillor in Islington , Corbyn an MP in Islington when the abuse scandal became public .

Claiming there is hardly any anti semetism in the Labour Party is denying facts

These are the facts

'Corbyn, he did not present a threat only to Israel and Israel's supporters, he posed a threat to the whole British elite.

Across the board, from the Guardian to the Daily Mail, they all joined in the new anti-semitism campaign. Now that's unprecedented - the entire British elite, during this whole completely contrived, fabricated, absurd and obscene assault on this alleged Labour anti-semitism, of which there is exactly zero evidence, zero.'

Grany

Your ' bias media' rhetoric is a repition of the same old, same old conversation that there is a conspiracy by the media.

My same old, same old question is from where/whom do the media obtain there ' bias'?

Have you ever watched/heard or listened to the Labour Party MP's/ Labour Councillors et al who are the ones who have been raising the issue of the rise of antisemitism within the Labour Party for almost 4 years ? The media cannot concoct names out of a hat.

There are a small number of Labour MP's such as Chris Williams whom you believe is some sort of a wronged man who appeal to those such as yourself and others who believe in Media bias/Conspiracy theories but thank goodness the majority of Labour MP's take an altogether different opinion because they have bore witness to what is happening and have the guts to tell it as it is.

Zero evidence of anti semetism in the Labour Party ?

This is a wind up surely?

Grany

On one hand you pay lip service and say :-

'Yes agree there is some anti semitism in the Labour Party which will not be tolerated'

Then you say by quoting :-

' Labour anti-semitism, of which there is exactly zero evidence, zero.'
---

You will never believe a word of what any printed media story/article reports if it does not agree with you as you recommend we only read the Morning Star for truth.

If I were to read the words of Fincklestine whom you believe, agree with by quoting his words or listening and watching the MP's speaking openly in the media or during the various debates in the House of Parliament on antisemitism I know which platform I will regard as giving me the ' truth and providing factual evidence' not theoretic /conspiracy theory personal beliefs.

Each to their own I guess.

I am standing by this article which I believe o be true.

The facts all fit with Finkelstein and Chomsky's identification of a politically motivated smear campaign. Our July 4 ProQuest search of UK newspaper articles before and after Corbyn stood for the Labour leadership in May 2015 found these mentions:

'Jeremy Corbyn' and 'anti-semitism' before 1 May 2015 = 18 hits

'Jeremy Corbyn' and 'anti-semitism' after 1 May 2015 = 13,080 hits

None of the 18 articles accused Corbyn of anti-semitism. In his first 32 years as an MP, it was just not a theme. And not, as we have discussed, because Corbyn was not known or smeared – he was subjected to vile personal abuse by the press, just not in relation to any supposed anti-semitism.

There are Blairites n the party causing trouble as always they want things to stay the same as, careerists polititions they don't want to support a socialist changing society a more modern Labour government as it should be under Jeremy Corbyn

Latest UGov poll only 45% of Voters who voted Labour in the last election would now vote Labour, the other 55% was distributed amongst Lib Dems, Greens, Conservative and 10% Brexit Party.

Not looking good for Jeremy's leadership plans!

lemon It’s clear just how uncomfortable you are with this subject.
This is exactly the sort of remark I was referring to when. I said that accusations of anti-semitism and questioning those accusations could lead to the end of free speech. -You won't agree with me therefore I will accuse you of either being complicit or being unable to discuss the subject. In fact there is a much more balanced discussion on the side of those of us who worry about accusations being thrown about than there is on the side of those who simply throw up their hands in horror, scream "anti-Semitism" and refuse to listen or discuss the surrounding issues. And one of the most disturbing things is the way anti-semitism is being used for political gain by people like Jeremy Hunt.

pogs lemon gg13g

Read the next sentence very carefully.

I am not and have never denied, nor am I uncomfortable with anti -semtism and it’s existence in the Labour Party.

Got that?

Now read the next sentence very carefully

There is as much or more Islamophobia and anti-semitism in the Tory party.

Got that?

I can give many examples, but find the repetition of racist remarks repugnant. But if you doubt what I am saying I can do so.

Got that?

Just because you say ‘Got that’ three times WWM2, means absolutely nothing.Nor does it make what you assert true.
Any mention of antisemitism makes some LP members go into denial mode.
Iam64 ...good posts, I agree completely.
trisher the mural was anti semitic alright, your ‘big nose/ears’ theory gave me a real laugh.?

WWM2 not sure why you included me in your last post?

The reason why I liked Grany's post was because it mentions (somewhere) a point I made ages ago.
ie in the end it's going to turn back to blaming the Jews for making a fuss. Which might be partly true, but still the same old story.
For myself, a Jewish convert, I want to keep a low profile.
Also a lifelong supporter of the LP.

fennel ☹️ Unfortunately history confirms you as being right.

lemon you see there you go again- no real discussion but just "It was", "You're wrong" again. But to try and present at least a reasonable argument
The artist didn't intend it to be
The men depicted are not all Jewish although all have big noses and facial hair. (so perhaps we should condemn it as ageist because it depicts elderly men unflatteringly)
The imagery is more connected with Masonic ideas than with Judaism.
And finally of course I absolutely abhor any censorship of art this only happens in authoritarian regimes.
See lemon this is how reasoned argument works.

I have read quite extensively about the artist This is what the artist said about the Mural Freedom for Humanity.

I came to paint a mural that depicted the elite banker cartel known as the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Morgans, the ruling class elite few, the Wizards of Oz. They would be playing a board game of monopoly on the backs of the working class. The symbol of the Free Mason [sic] Pyramid rises behind this group and behind that is a polluted world of coal burning and nuclear reactors. I was creating this piece to inspire critical thought and spark conversation. A group of conservatives do not like my mural and are playing a race card with me. My mural is about class and privilege. The banker group is made up of Jewish and white Anglos. For some reason they are saying I am anti-semitic. This I am most definitely not... What I am against is class."

I think that you have to consider the artists intention when painting the mural, and in turn our interpretation.

My initial judgement when this was first raised as an issue was that I was willing to accept the artists explanation, as looking as his history and ideology together with his previous work. I understood what and why he was trying to portray.

However, I think that it was very unfortunate to place the installation where he did, although I fully understand why he did. I also think it had unfortunate connotations of the Der Sturmer imagery.

On balance then I entirely take on board the artists explanation, but I think he was naive to use the imagery he did and him being surprised at the reaction. In the febrile atmosphere of the accusation of Labour anti-semtism, we must note this mural only came to public attention 5 years after it was painted. I think the Jewish community were quite within their rights to demand its removal, but am sad that it was necessary, as I think the message was not anti-Semitic but about vast wealth and the exploitation of the working class.

Do not take from this that I necessarily agree with the artist.

trisher.....there you go again, your old person big nose /ears theory, utter tosh!

The artist’s explanation of his street mural is him trying to wriggle out of his antisemitic street art.Why accept it?Because he says so?
Also....what? The exploitation of the working class? Here in the UK? Not everyone can be the owner of a firm, it needs workers.
He placed this ‘picture’ in exactly the place he wanted it to be, and yes, the Jewish community there were right to demand it’s removal ( should have been removed sooner.)

"the message was not anti-Semitic but about vast wealth and the exploitation of the working class. "
Exactly - thanks * Whitewave*.
And which is why I still support our poor divided, weak - leaded LP.
If only I was 40 years younger!