Give back the Chagos Islands and apologise

People could only have been treated ‘like commodities ‘ because a deal was agreed and guess what? Their own government sold them out. But much bashing of the British (again) - it has to always be us at fault!

You missed this vital piece MaizieD from Wiki:

‘To satisfy the terms of an agreement between the United Kingdom and the United States for an uninhabited island, the plantation on Diego Garcia was closed in October of that year.

The plantation workers and their families were initially moved to the plantations on Peros Banhos and Salomon atolls in the northwest of the archipelago; those who requested were transported to the Seychelles or Mauritius. In 1972, the United Kingdom decided to close all the remaining plantations throughout the Chagos, and deported the Ilois to the Seychelles or Mauritius. The then-independent Mauritian government refused to accept the islanders without payment and in 1973, the United Kingdom gave the Mauritian government an additional £650,000 to resettle the islanders. However, despite this islanders often found themselves in woefully inadequate housing and living conditions.’

Well, you missed this bit, Urmstongran

the entire population was removed against its will from the islands

Sorry, money is no compensation for this and to 'buy' an island with the intention of removing the inhabitants is positively mediaeval.

I knew the ancestry card would be played for sympathy at some stage.

You are quite contemptible, lemon. What a vile thing to say. Though I do realise, from long experience, that your empathy gene is nonexistent.

Goodness me! The OP was about a topical ruling by the UN's highest court that Britain had acted illegally by forcing Mauritius to sell the islands by the act of threatening to refuse independence. That's why I posted the BBC link.

The story had nothing to do with Spain or Argentina. It was a very serious international court judgement against Britain.

Thank you Maizie for trying to get the thread back on track.

I identify as Scottish, British and European and am proud of my citizenship of all three. In my first two posts I used the words UK, Britain, our (3 times), ours (1), us (2), we (1) and ourselves (1).

There was no Scottish or European element whatsoever, unless the word independence is now only ever narrowly seen as referring to our (Britain's) own current debates ...which is quite frankly ridiculous in a historical context.

And since it has been mentioned here, yes, the Gibraltarians wish to be British, but they also want to remain in the EU for the same security and stability reasons as the voters of NI.

This lively section of Gransnet is titled news and politics and we should all feel free to comment on news and politics of the day. Most keep the debate civil and on track and I am glad of it.

Disagree with me by all means, but please don't hijack the thread with nonsense or accusations of disloyalty to my country.

Lemongrove I'm sad if you think there is constant British or English bashing by Scottish posters, or that you think "one or two Scots grans plus the far left members" wail about the "horrors of being British".

Not true from what I have read here and, indeed, if you see something racist the quickest way to deal with it would be to report.

Yes, I am Scottish (and British and European). You don't need to assume. I have posted enough times about Scotland but the clue is also in my name which is Caledonai (a play on Caledonia) with 14 after it. I should have made it 24 because it looks like Caledonail, but hey ho it's not the biggest worry in my life right now.

* Gnashing is spelled with a g, not a k. Similar to gnat, gnu and gnome.

well said paddy ann re the Falklands. An outmoded and irrelevant waste of money. Quietly hand them back.

MaizieD I won’t report your ‘you are quite contemptible’
Comment as am not a big fan of reporting generally, but be aware that you are allowed to say that my comment was contemptible, if you think so but not ME.
If it happens again though, I will be reporting you.
You were eliciting the sympathy card, whatever you say about it.
Caledonail I supposed you were Scottish but don’t remember reading your posts before now.
You can’t have been around this forum for long if you don’t think there is England/British bashing going on by a few posters.
Correcting spelling on GN is rather infra dig btw.

Lily65 ‘handing back’ as you phrase it,the Falklands ( quietly or otherwise)
Would be an awful thing to do to the Falklanders, or can’t you see that?
The Falklands belongs to Britain and the people have no wish to be taken over by Argentina.

I'm not going to argue the situation regarding the Chagos Islands I don't know enough about it, I think the treatment of the people who lived there does sound harsh. Britain was of course an imperial powers as indeed were many other European countries, none of us covered ourselves with glory when Europe was carving up the world between them.

However, if Spain is to argue that Gibraltar should be part of Spain, they have a point, should they not hand back Ceuta to Morocco it's cited in North Africa. There are so many anomalies with these sort of situation. When we were in Argentina five years ago we were very mindful of the conflict between our countries and certainly wouldn't have brought up the contentious subject of the Falkland Islands, which incidentally are really miles away from the mainland as are the Galapagos who belong to Ecuador, nowhere near. However, on the subject of Argentina per se, it was very noticeable to us that there were hardly any evidence of an indigenous population there and we were told by Argentians that's because the Spanish did their damndest to wipe out the Guarani people when they started to settle that country. Just a few left up in the north of the country bordering Paraguay and Brazil.

I do think certain Scottish posters like to look at Britain in isolation (for Britain read England) and heap all the world's ills on us and often those comments are spat out all too frequently in a vitriolic manner.

I'd quite like to get the thread back onto the Chagos islands and the ruling of the international court yesterday.

corrections - sited not cited. which not who

Bet you would Caledonail the fact that it bashes Britain has nothing to do with anything at all. Now where’s my hair shirt ...

Quietly hand the Falklands back?!!! to whom?!! Modern Argentina didn't exist until about 1880 and has no claim on the Falklands whatsoever. Perhaps Spain, the occupier/conquerer of most of South America up till it created Spanish speaking countries might be more appropriate?!!!! Britain however has occupied the Falklands on and off (with the French and Spanish) since 1690! I doubt there would be anything 'quiet' about surreptitiously giving the archipelago to Argentina bearing in mind the attitude and loyalty to Britain these Islanders feel!!! And yes, the correction of spelling is extremely rude!!!

I have never bashed Britain, here or anywhere else. I'm a Brit and very proud af all sorts of aspects of our lives and connections. My favourite bil is English and 2 English cities are at the top of my list for great places to live and work.

Does this mean every time I mention the absolute shambles Westminster is in I will be unfairly criticised for bashing my country?

My own MP's spending priorities most recently have been to write to me - and hundreds of others apparently - on House of Commons headed paper about local bus problems most of us don't recognise and I certainly hadn't complained about, followed by a glossy postal drop like the kind you get at election time telling us what a good chap he is.

He's a Scot and I'm not happy about how he's spending that cash or about what he's been saying in the House of Commons about Brexit in view of its financial effect on us already in a rural area (you might have guessed he's a Tory).

I'm proud of being British but that doesn't mean I'm happy with being ruled from Westminster by idiots who are pushing us over a cliff.

The place for bashing is the ballot box and attempts to intimidate me and other Scots into silence on a public forum by attributing racist motives to completely unrelated ops are unfair and not what I expected from GN.

It looks as though Gnet agreed with me, Lemon

It seems to me that the difference between the Chagos Islands and the Falklands and Gibraltar is that the transfer of 'ownership' in the two latter cases happened so long ago that circumstances have changed completely, making them both very complex issues to disentangle.

The Chagos Islands look far more straightforward to me. It's not the buying/selling of the islands which bothers me so much as the forcible depopulation.

Without knowing the history of the Chagossian peoples I would assume that they had lived there for a few hundred years and had a culture which included land ownership rights and usage. If this could all be disrupted by the 'owners' of the islands and then the population cleared out for the convenience of the 'owners' (sounds a bit like the Highland Clearances, doesn't it?) then they were, in effect being treated like commodities. To add insult to injury, the US, it seems, have only used a small portion of the Islands so the Chagossians have to see their ancestral lands going to unoccupied and unused. ( Though I've no doubt that the Americans have built themselves some wonderful leisure facilities there)

This isn't a matter of hairshirts and self hatred. We have surely moved on in our views since the 1960s and no longer see actions such as this as being acceptable?

Anyway all this discussion seems pretty academic. An FCO spokesperson said: “This is an advisory opinion, not a judgment. The defence facilities on the British ­Indian Ocean Territory help to protect people here in Britain and around the world from terrorist threats, organised crime and piracy.”

That’s that then.

Ah, but perhaps it's advisory like the EU referendum


I don't see why we shouldn't discuss it, though. There are loads of 'pointless' discussions on Gnet.

Fair point MaizieD

MaizieD since I haven’t reported any of your posts we cannot know what they think.

Caledonail what has any of your last post got to do with
The thread subject??

Actually there isn’t much more to say about the Chagos Islands.....Urmstongran you have said it all.??

I dont ever "english bash" Yes I'll put my hand up to a deep invading hatred of Westminster but not of the people of England .I have never in my life run anyone down for being English .Its the war cry though isn't it SNP and the Scots want Independence BECAUSE they Hate the English!!!! UTTER rubbish,Nicola Sturgeons husband was born in England as was her Granny ..most Scots I know have ENGLISH connections .

Cant you try to understand that its NORMAL for countries to rule themselves .countries that are small manage just as well and often better than the large overpopulated ones .Scotland can flourish wirthout westminster ,not be held back as we are now .
sorry for the rant Caledonai1 I always expect to be targetted by some on here as anti English and its not true .

Really?!
Then you understand why so many voted to leave the EU then.
You are very welcome to Independence paddyann as long as the higher number vote for it.

I’m sure paddyann that you can therefore identify with those of us who voted to Leave the superstate of the EU as we too believe a small country can thrive and be proud of ourselves.

And I have said before paddyann on these forums that I for one am in agreement with you and other Scottish people who wish most fervently to vote for independence as David Cameron shafted your nation over this issue. He sneakily told you that the best way for Scotland to stay in the EU was to remain part of the U.K. THEN he called the referendum!

It seems DC (along with the majority of MP’s in the HoC) truly believed Remain would win. He and they were wrong. So Scotland is being dragged out of the EU against its will and were persuaded to stick with us in the process.

If I were Scottish I’d be FURIOUS!

It is normal for small countries to want to run themselves, that's exactly why we want to leave The EU. If you really believe that Paddyann, why, having at some future date, would Scotland, having hopefully gained its independence, immediately want to be run by the EU Commission? Surely independence means, as you've said, running your own affairs without outside interference! Being in the EU totally contradicts that view!

MaizieD since I haven’t reported any of your posts we cannot know what they think.

They deleted your post, lemon because I reported it. I also volunteered to have my post deleted. They haven't deleted it. I think that makes it pretty clear.

If I were Scottish I’d be FURIOUS!

Ha! I have said that, too, on other threads, Urmstongran

As to why Scotland would like to remain in the EU, that's just derailing this thread again... So I won't join in that discussion...