Fraudulent referendum

Just reading through this, the latest in dozens of Brexit threads that have gone befire it, and wondering if any of the thousands of words; arguments; accusations and counter accusations, have altered anyone's opinions? Has anyone been swayed by the strength of conviction of a posters opinions of what was right or wrong? Does anyone feel that what they have written on this, or any other thread, has made any difference whatsoever?

Gabriella wrote:

"I'll deal with any result and certainly won't be doing without my usual shopping habits."

Good for you Gabby. For a lot of people Brexit is not very good.

Whatever...I'm not bothered any more.
I'll deal with any result and certainly won't be doing without my usual shopping habits.
I have to laugh at those who crow 'yay' over being able to get an Irish passport. Infantile behaviour from aged adults.

oh dear, a few capital letters do not amount to vile rage and anger- for sure. And no, both sides did not blatantly, willfully and illegally lied.

jura2
so you are not bothered about clear and proven fraud- on a massive scale
Nope ?

Both sides cheated and lied, both before the referendum and afterwards. Project Fear was hardly truthful!!!! As for President Obama?!!!!!

leavers remainers
Remainers not leavers.

There has been at least 1 poster who was pulled up for writing in capital letters...aka shouting.
The rage, in many of the posts from leavers, is palpable IMO.

Oh jura2

“So you are not bothered about clear and proven fraud- on a massive scale. “

Nope.

Mrs. May isn’t losing sleep over it & she, Hammond, Rudd, Lidington, Grieve, Soubry amongst many others aren’t mentioning it. Why should it bother me then?

GG54 : ' rage/anger/shouting and frustration'

frustration I will give you, yes, tons of it. But rage, anger and shouting' - disgraceful! Where? Nonsense.

Anyone who was a genuine pacifist wouldn't be reading the Brexit threads! Anyone with an axe to grind couldn't keep away! What a mess has been caused, and is still being caused by an inward looking, infighting Tory Party!

The cheating got the leavers the result they wanted so they're hardly going to condemn those who set them up.

It is beyond sensible doubt that there is no proper mandate to leave the EU. The notes to the Venice Commission on referendums, to which the UK is a signatory, says “if the cap on spending is exceeded by a significant margin, the vote must be annulled”. Our own courts have said: “In elections, as in sport, those who win by cheating have not properly won and are disqualified.”

The rules that parliament decreed to ensure the referendum was not captured by oligarchs will have been breached.

The fact nobody can prove beyond doubt that Vote Leave’s cheating made the difference is beside the point. Did we say to Lance Armstrong’s seven runners-up, “Yes, we know he’s a drugs cheat but can you prove you would have won if he hadn’t taken drugs?” Of course not – how could they prove that?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/04/vote-leave-cheated-will-people-mps-electoral-commission

I'm a pacifist and the level of rage/anger/shouting and frustration on here from remainers is disgraceful.

... not bothered either?!? It is flabbergasting that people use the word 'democracy' willy nilly- picking and choosing.
So you are not bothered about clear and proven fraud- on a massive scale. You are not bothered that the Leave campaign and Banks actually stepped up the campaign just as Joe Cox had been murdered, taking advantage of it- and so much more.

Accepting a tiny majority won on massive lies and fraud- IS what will kill democracy. But yes, I totally agree with you - we will never agree- for excellent reasons.

Well MaizieD and jura2 I’m never going to agree with you.
Funny how the Establishment aren’t bothered either - even though most are Remainers?
Perhaps they ought to listen to you both more.

The deceitfulness of Remainer MP's disgust me!

As always - it depends on which ‘experts’ you side with & my choices are are not yours.

Oh do stop all this nonsense about 'experts differing'. This isn't a matter of expert opinion, it's about the law being broken. It's about a dirty referendum which would have been voided had it (i.e the referendum) had any legal standing. But it doesn't have any legal standing because it was never intended to have any.

Theresa May is well aware that the result is tainted, her Counsel said so in court very recently. Her decision to press on with Brexit, citing that awful fascist trope about 'the will of the people' shows that even our prime minister shows contempt for the rule of law. It's supposed to be a cornerstone of our democracy...

Quite frankly, the disregard of Leavers on here for the principles of democracy which include fairness and openness in elections, completely disgust me.

Democracy is far more than just 'the will of the people'.

Deceitful MP's who signed article 50 en masse , who also went to their electorate at the GE on the promise of delivering Brexit. Their constituents believed them, more fool them! they won't make that mistake again, none of us will!!. Those MP's who don't seem to be able to differentiate between the word " deliver" and "destroy", which of course truthfully, is what they really meant! An ex attorney general !! The man is a complete disgrace, as they all are!

You can agree to disagree about opinions Urmstongran- but facts, are just that, facts. There is no 'agreeing or disagreeing' about facts. Multiple and massive fraud is not a question of opinion either- and nothing to do with 'experts'- but with facts.

Ah, we shall just have to agree to disagree ladies.
?
As always - it depends on which ‘experts’ you side with & my choices are are not yours.
Que sera sera!

Try reading the Torygraph

"Russian trolls sent thousands of pro-Leave messages on day of Brexit referendum, Twitter data reveals"

www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/10/17/russian-iranian-twitter-trolls-sent-10-million-tweets-fake-news/

'No election or referendum is squeaky clean!'

the is squeaky clean- and massively fraudulent - the campaign by Leave and Ukip has been shown to be the second- very worryingly so- and a lot has not come out yet.

The Electoral Commission has made it clear, the evidence so far would make any vote or referendum NIL and VOID. But they cannot act as the Referendum was, by our own Laws, advisory and not binding. What ridiculous and extremely worrying situation for the very essence of democracy.

This from the Graun 3. Months ago:

“Theresa May’s spokeswoman said that to date the government had “not seen successful interference in UK democratic processes”.

She added: “We of course remain vigilant and we will continue to work to strengthen our democracy against potential interference.” “

Enough now!

? ... ?

Bore off now.
If TM (a Remainer) and more than half the Cabinet who also voted Remain are accepting of the result of the referendum then (a) why should us Leavers in the lower echelons of society take a bashing and (b) why do Remain voters turn into attack dogs at the perceived Gates of Democracy over this topic still?

Banging on about hasn’t changed diddly squat because the powers that be (ie. not us) are not acknowledging it happened.

No election or referendum is squeaky clean!