Can this government really continue?

Oh and add to that: assume everyone who is opposed to JCs labour only gets their information from the daily mail and believes propaganda. You have that string in your bow too.

Never mind that there is a hell of a lot of pro labour propoganda out there too...
The likelihood of people not questioning their sources is not proportional to how far left or right they vote. It is prevalent on both sides.

I believe the NHS in Wales is in a deplorable state. Labour administration has been pitiful. Friends of my brother have sold up their place in Barmouth and moved back to England because their health care has been appalling. There is a discernible difference they think.

The NHS is NOT safe in Labour hands.

As for only labour voters caring. Everyone who votes cares. (And some who conscientiously obstain care too).

What we disagree on is what to DO about the things we all care about.

Look at the mainifestos of opposing parties, they have a lot of the same headings! BECAUSE the issues people care about are the same, its the details of how to address them that differ.

"You don't care about anyone else if you vote differently to me, you must be a bad person if you dont vote for JC" is exactly the type of scary divisiveness that is coming out of the labour camp, hate your neighbour if they don't blindly follow too, which is making so many of us determined to keep them OUT

Depersonalising anyone who disagrees is not a feature of a civilised society.

You (incorrectly) base you assumption that social policy doesnt directly affect me PURELY on the fact that I won't vote labour. Because that is the kind of propoganda coming from the labour camp at the moment. And it is DANGEROUS

". then watch them squeal ? "

A movement that encourages this sort of thinking about anyone who doesn't follow is a movement which I do not want taking over the UK

Notanan, I have been saying this for ages.

Left wingers fill social media with propaganda about "uncaring" and "selfish" people who refuse to acknowledge JC and Marxism.

The left claim a monopoly on caring and tend to get away with i, and recruit others who don't see through the propaganda.

Throw in rough sleepers, and food banks into every argument too, as though these are the only areas for concern, and only THEY care. Have you noticed?

It is propaganda and they get away with it because few people challenge it. Most people care very deeply about social issues. You don't have to join JP and the Marxists to prove it.

Someone in the Conservative PR/Comms office needs a good shaking up to change the image of the party. They allow Labour to claim and camp out on the moral high ground.

As you say notanan, these things are on ALL political agendas. The sad fact is that only two parties are likely to gain a substantial number of votes. If we don't have Conservatives, we get Labour Marxists.

Labour brought waiting times for operations and A&E right down.
Day6 is right about the Labour-run NHS in Wales. It is patchy - parts are excellent but waiting times are deplorable. Someone was complaining to me the other day that she had to wait longer than 12 weeks for a dermatology appointment in England - the waiting time in Wales for one was over 30 weeks.

The NHS is NOT safe in Labour hands.
Anyone who had any connection with Stafford Hospital when Labour were in government will testify to that.

Appointments are done in order of priority, always have been. It's just that consultants and their clinics have more patients than ever. There's no easy answer.
Even when I was helping out at clinics there'd be as many as 45 patients to see from 1pm until 5pm which is why the clinic didn't end until 9pm as it's impossible to see patients within a given window of time.

I feel that this forum reflects the demographic thinking division in Britain with many polls showing younger voters supporting Labours more social leaning polices, while older voters remain with conservative polices on such matters.

Below is a section of a report published in the Independent Newspaper printed in September 2018 which for me states the position exactly.

Report begins here:-
The Tories could "go out of business" unless the party comes up with a convincing offer to woo young voters and ethnic minority voters, Conservative MPs have said.

Harborough MP Neil O'Brien said young voters had flocked to Labour in last year's election because Jeremy Corbyn promised them "the moon on a stick" and compared the Conservatives' record with young people to a "branch that has been rotting for years" which finally snapped.

George Freeman, Theresa May's former policy adviser, told the same panel that the Tory party looked like "besuited bank managers of austerity" and had come to resemble the "armed wing of Ukip" with its Brexit stance.
Report ends here.

Many older persons fail to appreciate the effects that the housing crisis and employment security have on many young families at the present time, and how that is reflected in their political thinking at elections.

It should be remembered that the Conservative party went into the 2017 general election campaign with a twenty point opinion poll lead over the Labour party which was the reason Theresa May called the election. However, when the polices of both parties were actually seen and considered by the electorate the Tories lost their overall majority in parliament.

Link to the full Independent report:-
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservative-conference-latest-young-voters-ethnic-minorities-labour-youth-vote-a8562011.html

This was in the '80's and '90's so nobody can expect an appointment present day when they expect to unless it's a dire emergency. The NHS can only do so much.

Well the NHS has certainly not been very safe in Tory hands, ditto education, social care, public libraries, public transport, the welfare system. Agree with whoever said earlier that more tactical voting may be needed next time. Is this government fit to continue? No.

Failing PR, if only Labour and Lib Dem would have the wit to field one candidate between them in this area then the ancient Tory would be out on his ear. But they plough on as if they are unable to work this out. Pitiful.

As life long member of the Lib Dems, nothing, but nothing would get me voting Labour in the absence of a Lib Dem candidate, I wouldn't vote Conservative either.

Younger voters didn’t experience the nightmare 1970’s and 1980’s, which resulted in 11 years of Thatcher

Both the Conservative and Labour governments have let this country down by having weak leaders with no forethought about the future of the country whatsoever.

Both governments have allowed thousands in with absolutely nothing in place regarding work, accommodation or thought about the extra burden on the NHS and other sources such as housing. Where did they think all these people were going to live or how they were all going to manage ?

Why are people now blaming the Labour Party? This government has been defeated in the HOP and in public court. Nothing to do with Labour. Regardless of if you believe in their policies or not should they not, as a mark of true democracy stand down?

I blame both parties trisher for not having a clue about anything and this needless Brexit discussion has deflected just nicely the state in which other areas of government are in.

I am not blaming Labour for the decisions of this Government, but naturally voters will consider the alternative should this government stand down , the alternative is Corbyn, a liar , a leader who refused to take part in the referendum debates,even went on holiday,who will not say where he stands on brexit, a man who wriggles out of his anti semetic stance with ‘ I didn’t look at the wall mural closely’, I didn’t read the posts, (on a site he posted on), who was at a wreath laying ceremony but, ‘I was present but I don’t think I was involved’

Can this man be trusted to run the country ?

this forum reflects the demographic thinking division in Britain with many polls showing younger voters supporting Labours more social leaning polices, while older voters remain with conservative polices on such matters

Well, that's hardly a revelation Grandad What's new?

Aren't most young people socialists until they have responsibilities and bills to pay?

I supported every good cause, sit-in, protest and march when I was young. Now, students, middle aged Trots and middle class virtue-signallers along with the odd wealthy celeb (stand up Lily Allen) tend to make up the ranks of most protests these days.

Well the NHS has certainly not been very safe in Tory hands

Indeed it has not. If only there was a viable alternative!
But alas there is not, only worse evils.

The useless government and the equally dire opposition are both a bunch of w*nkers tbh. There are many of who feel disenfranchised with no one to vote for who represents our views. Our so called democracy is a relic of the 19th century and should be overturned. Many European countries had to start from scratch after WW2, whereas we are lumbered with our antiquated system which cannot cope with any sort of crisis. We now know Brexit is a pile of doodoo and the ordinary folk will get royally shafted one way or another. No doubt the tories will be voted back in as most are so disgruntled with the system and won’t bother, only the old gammons will turn out. Sigh.... meanwhile cheerio jobs, nhs, education, housing etc

notanan I agree with all your posts on this thread and admire the fact that you stick to the subject and don’t get personal with other posters, despite there being several snide comments from one or two ...the ‘you don’t vote Labour therefore don’t care about anything’ brigade.It’s a stupid and tiresome message from them.
There is no alternative to this government at the moment,
No practical or good one anyway!

This government will be with us forever unless people bite the bullet and vote for a party that they do not usually do - tactical voting is the only hope.

I don’t think it’s just the young and wealthy who go on protests by the way. I’ve been on a few - against the Iraq War, hospital closures, anti Brexit and the like. Very diverse bunch. All peaceful as well.