Dishonest reporting of spending on education

Thanks Grandma2213 I've family and friends in both professions so have seen them all struggling.
One thing has occurred to me junior doctors do get goodies from drug companies. I am told reps often arrange meetings late in the evening and provide pizza etc so that junior doctors will go, they are bombarded with info about new drugs in the hope that they will remember and use them later in their careers.
No one does that for teachers. But who knows, if academies continue to be gov. policy there may be people pushing stuff to teachers as well

trisher I totally agree with you about doctors, teachers and probably nurses, social workers and other public sector employees that I have less knowledge about. They are overworked and spend more hours than they are paid for doing that work. They do pay personally for courses and resources to keep them 'up to date'. They do care about their pupils, patients, clients etc and they are all suffering from the cuts of the past few years.

When I made the comment about paying for medication it was actually a quote from a doctor that I had spoken to and yes they probably are not able to do this even if they wanted to. I apologise for what appears to be a flippant comment. It was not meant to offend.

Nevertheless it would be interesting to see a survey of how much people actually pay themselves to make their jobs easier and more effective (or to support those they are trying to help). It would be a better use of money than some of the surveys they actually do which have totally unsurprising results. I can think of a recent one I read which found that patients who had the same GP for years fared better and were more likely to take his/her advice than those who had a series of different GPs. What a surprise!!!! (NOT)

many headteachers gave up a days pay recently to go to London to deliver a petition about funding. Generally speaking HTs are conservative people and so things are bad when they are out protesting about the poor funding for their students.

It is a fact that figures for university student fees and private school fees paid by parents were included in this figure. The Dfes admitted it (see the BBC news story).

The investigation is over whether they should have been included.

As Gillt pointed out the investigation is still to be carried out. Yes, I did hear it all on R4 news but I also heard that it is an accusation not a fact and I reiterate that I am fed up with headlines which actually say something is an accusation but make it seem like a fact. If at some point it is found to be false it won't make the headlines. I don't need anyone to tell me what has been claimed or to assume I defend the figures, I don't, I just want to wait to find out if this is a political slur or a fact.

Grandma2213 I don't know why you would draw a distinction between doctors and teachers. Most of those working in both sectors I know have similar situations and do their best in difficult circumstances. Of course doctors don't supply medication but they do spend time and money keeping themselves up to date wih the latest medical findings. Both professions work many more hours than they are required to and both go the extra mile for the people they work with. And both are now struggling to cope with the huge financial damage done by this government.

'Lies, damned lies and statistics'. Yes so true and 'twas ever thus. I have no faith in what any government says. I was a teacher for 45 years and had to buy my own resources, reading books and even basic equipment such as pens and notebooks. I'm pretty sure this is still the case. You can also recognise teachers off duty who are collecting shells, seeds, leaves, information on topics in museums, libraries, exhibitions etc on Egypt, World War 1, Vikings etc etc depending on what the National Curriculum prescribes for their year. You don't see Doctors or Specialists in hospitals paying for the most appropriate medication for their patients as there is only one acceptable (cheap) alternative on the NHS!

My DGC are lucky enough to attend schools who do their best with the resources they have but parents are increasingly having to be asked to contribute and because I have had previous professional links with the same schools I have access to the difficulties they are facing and the impossible decisions they have to make due to decreases in funding.

It is only education where I have experience but this seems to be happening across the board. Never mind the token transparency why can we not simply have the truth?

nonnie the figures are fudged to make it seem as if more money is going to state schools and improving budgets. The reality is known by governors and headteachers. They are barely making ends meet, many budgets are in deficit and that is after cutting back as far as they can.

Nonnie the Minister saying that the figures are correct is exactly what I am talking about! They are, to my mind, willfully misrepresenting education spending as education budget, the spending figure includes parental fees for independent schools, tuition fees paid by university students, not the same thing at all, for heaven's sake.

In case you did not open the link, here are the two pertinent quotes:

^The Department for Education accepts that the spending claim is not limited to public spending on schools - but stands by its use of the figures as "true"^

^The investigation will be carried out by the UK Statistics Authority, the watchdog which prevents the misleading use of figures^

That was to Maw of course. Posts crossed grannyticktock - what you are describing is despicable and disgusting, for sure.

It's all a bit silly then ;)

Another factor to consider: some of tthe money we are told is spent on schools never reaches the schools but goes into the pockets of the directors of large chains of academies. I'm not talking about earned salaries, I'm talking about academies such as he Bright Tribe Trust, recently featured on Panorama, who have pocketed hundreds of thousands they were given to carry out repairs on school buildings. If this is happening around the country, millions of pounds of "education spending" from taxpayers' money is being siphoned off by businessmen.

No comment.

Thought so - so why comment at all? Strange.

Hmm, did none of you R4 listeners here a minister say the figures were correct? Shouldn't we wait and see what the investigation concludes? Not taking sides just thoroughly fed up with all sorts of accusations against all sorts of people being taken as facts. Think Cliff Richard.

No thank you.

Maw 'Keep trying jura2 ? ?'

care to give your comment Maw? What do you think about the figures given?

At the moment, I cannot blame anyone choosing to send their kids to private school - as long as they keep caring, and keep fighting- for an excellent education for all.

I don't remember hearing anything positive about investment in education coming out of the LP conference, but at least they didn't lie about it. The investigation should be interesting, I do wonder how they look their fellow MPs in the eye as they are found out, but then again when you remember the expenses scandal.........
Any supporters of Damian Hinds MP like to speak up? remind us that we are living in the best of all possible worlds? Thought not.

Last time the Tories were in power they damaged education and left a system desperately struggling with leaking unfit buildings because of under investment. It doesn't surprise me that they are doing similar things again, however trying to cover it all up is a new low.

I don't believe they think we're stupid, they just don't care what we think, which is worse. And they don't care what we think because they face no credible opposition. Where is Labour on this (have I missed something?)

Keep trying jura2 ? ?

I am asking the teachers to try to keep a record of any money they spend themselves to suppirt the curriculum.

t is not so much the facts as we know them, more the denial, verging on lies that incenses me, do these people really think we are that stupid?

Hear, hear GillT

I'm afraid the answer to your question is probably 'Yes', though...

You sum the situation up perfectly PECS. my newly qualified DD, in her NQT year, has no TA help at all, and her NQT morning and PPA time is covered by the overworked headteacher. Their photocopying is seriously limited, most of the additional reading books in her library corner were bought by DD as were the cushions and pictures to make it an attractive and welcoming corner of her cold classroom. It is not so much the facts as we know them, more the denial, verging on lies that incenses me, do these people really think we are that stupid?

Let's not forget Esther McVey, either, who had the bare-faced audacity to refer to benefit cuts as "Fake news" in her speech!