What so do thing will happen in Europe in the EU breaks up

The EEC was absolutely fine and a lot of us were so enthusiastic and excited all those years ago thinking we'd cracked it, it was the answer!! We believed what E Heath and others told us - a brave new world indeed! Now what it has morphed into is nothing like we thought we were signing up to all those years ago! Trading etc is one thing, but being run by the EU is quite another - No thank you!!

Jura2 please accept my apologies if I have upset you. I gather you were born there because of your username. These things said about Switzerland were said first publicly by Che Guevara who saw Switzerland as the root of social unrest in the world

But there again I was in Basle a month ago and saw a lot of poor people hanging about the big shops.

I live in S Germany and I love it here and Germany has to take alot of criticism especially from Brexiteers. I don’t care I'm staying here but I know you have a house in the Uk and in the end it is not easy with two homes.

We could perhaps agree with that, to some extent.

We are now however discussing the alternative and its consequenses, for the UK, and for the EU too.

As said before, would it have been better to stay and reform from within- or not. Are you for a deal, for the Chequers deal, or for Rees-Moggs aim, no deal?

Exactly Maw the EEC was fine, but not the behemoth it has turned into.

polly ...,you are worrying way too much.

I wish I shared your optimism Allygran but I'm with Jura on this one. There are so many things our "negotiators" are brushing aside as "easy" or "unimportant" none of them seem to have a clue about the real world.

I aree Jura. The whole thing is very worrying. Especially as you say with the rise of the far right and with Trump in power I worry about another world war but this time with nuclear weapons. Plus worries about climate change which needs a global policy. . We should be cooperating not splitting up. Its the GC I worry about.

We had the EEC which served a valid economic purpose.
Perhaps the EU has got out of its depth by trying to be all things to all nations?

Those deals are unlikely to materialise if there is no EU deal - the Japanese embassy have given the U.K. govt a warning about it.

MargaretX
The trade agreement between Japan and the EU is food for Japan and cars and electronics for the EU. Zero tariff, no customs union and no freedom of movement. This means that the German car industry which is running behind with it's research and in deep trouble with diesel emission's will not be happy.

This of course is good for Brexit, since it proves that if the EU want to they can do a deal with zero tariffs, no customs union and no freedom of movement. The UK now have a precedent for negotiation. It might mean that the Japan deal is meant for the Italian market to elevate mass unemployment and near Bankruptcy, and since the Italians have some skills in the car industry, it might just be useful for them.

A deal between the EU and the Japanese is the over arching agreement, the trade depends on individual businesses striking money making deals, so the actuality is yet to be seen.

Of course this deal is not exclusive, and the UK has already been in talks with the Japanese ready for when we are able to sign deals on our exit. So more electronics and car manufacturing in the UK perhaps! With a market into Japan for our services and products.

Mararet, just a direct dig at me, because I happen to have been born there. Just ignore.

Meanwhile Russian oligarchs have long been laundering money in London...

The EU has just made a huge deal with Japan for the exchange of goods and I presume the services which go with them and the technical staff which will accompany them.

What has Switzerland to do with all this? They have the fortunes of world criminals in their banks. They are a clever people and its good to work there. But using them as an example for much larger countries is hopeless. Compare like with like

Did I mention Switzerland? How relevant is Switzerland to this discussion?

Switzerland a trading nation? I thought Switzerland rested on its laurels as the centre par excellence for laundering money and hiding the bank accounts of criminals from ex Nazis onwards! The country remained neutral through both World Wars so sitting in a prime economic position afterwards, the country has a strong and growing right wing, populist party and voted in a 2014 referendum to cap immigration and reintroduce quotas on EU workers, only a fudge centred on prioritising Swiss workers stopped them being ejected from the single market.
I don't for a moment think you can compare the Swiss and their position in the world economy with the UK.
I also don't believe the EU is about to break up or suddenly become a militaristic super power. The ability to mobilise against an increasingly bullish Russia might be useful though as well as a reliance on cooperative neighbours, we can all guess where Switzerland will sit were there to be such a situation in the future.

If the EU is so deceptive and conniving, how come all the information is so readily available? Also, we now have a free trade deal with Japan courtesy of EU, that will go on Brexit, can't see how they will suddenly want to negotiate another one with the much smaller market that is the UK, easier for them to move to the EU.

I'll cry if I want to ...

good song that was. We can go anywhere we want, multi nationals, multilinguals, multi talented ... adaptabble, open, tolerant, lol ...- don't cry for me for sure.

Jura, I think I should say "don't cry for me Jura". The future is the twenty first century and good. I fear for Switzerland, I really do. Your status as 'neutral' is sadly compromised with your reliance on the single market, and the poor deals negotiated have you hooked. Your dependence compromises your neutrality and your plebiscite governance is going to react sooner or later. Your personal situation is good, enjoy.

This Country is and always has been a trading Nation, we know how to do it. Fear not, the NHS which you constantly mention is not underfunded it needs reorganising for the modern needs of the citizens.

It's a new era, new thinking is needed, and fearless people to embrace the opportunities, the people of the UK do that well.

Well said lemon grove, the overextended EU is the architect of it's own demise. The EU is clearly of a different mindset with this treaty with Japan. As we have seen with the Japanese free trade agreement there is no freedom of movement or customs union hooks in the treaty, which means it can be done if the EU have the will to do it. This gives us more power in our negotiations with the EU to press for a no strings deal. This deal between the EU and Japan has the potential to be good for Brexit. It also opens up our free trade deal with Japan once we exit the EU. Japan needs car and electronics markets and they don't produce enough of their own food, free trade and a truly competitive market with Japan must be good. Rather than driving Nissan out of the UK, we are likely to be able to encourage Japanese electronics and car manufacturing on a larger scale than now into the UK. German BMW and VW will not be happy since they will be tied into the EU tariffs. Also the German car industry is in some trouble with emissions and not enough research into the electronic car market, so it will be interesting to see what happens next. Competition is good for Business the Country and for consumers.

Thank you lemon, how kind. And you are right.

Actually, as much as the current situation grieves and upsets me- and will probably affect me financially even more (already down 50% of income) ... I personally will be totally fine, and so will my DDs and GCs- as we all have dual nationality, and GCs also have access to Irish nationality.

DDs work in extremely good jobs, one a VERY high level- and all the doors will be opened to them. They speak fluent French too, and have a good knowledge of German and Spanish. We have the possibility of running a large B&B with courses, raise our own beef, lamb and chickens, and all fruit and veg. So not a single worry for us- we are very very lucky.

But it does not stop me from caring about the country I adopted in 1970, became a citizen of in 1972, where I was very happy and integrated, with so many good friends. Where I studied hard, got my B.Ed.Hons and taught for so many years- and where OH totally dedicated his whole life to NHS. About the open, tolerant attitude to differences, which is often missing in my other country, and in France too, just next door. Yes, I could cry for the GREAT Britain which I so loved.

probably out last year!

I can't help thinking that if Margaret Thatcher was in charge of Brexit, we'd be out already!

jura you will never be reconciled to leaving the EU, so all I hope is that time, the great healer, will be kind to you.

'Rose coloured specs are all very well, until they get broken and then you see perhaps too late what was hidden from you.'

never a truer word AllyG - for sure.

Nobody, Brexiteers or non Brexiteers, knows what will happen in Europe if the EU goes belly up in the future.If only it had stayed as it was with a smaller number of solvent countries within Europe, simply being a trading bloc.
It has over extended itself like all empires do,with the same results eventually.
Perhaps it will re-form in a simple version with only trade on the menu and fewer countries, or perhaps it will cease to be, and every country arranges it’s own trade deals with other countries ( it can be done!)