Upskirting bill blocked

So what are they admiring? Seriously.

Joanna Williams is arguing that the idea of making upskirting a criminal offence (as opposed to a moral one, which it already is) is yet another way of making women into victims.

I get her point, especially after that recent case of a woman in a TV studio complaining about being upskirted. In that instance the camera operator was a woman and the complainant was wearing a short skirt that revealed most of her thighs even from a downskirt point of view.

The outline of the labia within the underwear and any visible buttock or pubic hairs, particularly on schoolchildren who are the most common and sought after victims of this offence.

There are also people who particularly seek out pictures with sweat stains or evidence that the girl was menstruating (tampon strings, period stains etc). Those suggesting the girl is wet feom sexual arousal or “dripping come” are the most sought after.

Most posters on the now banned subreddits devoted to upskirting were open that the violation of privacy and non consensuality of the photography was the most arousing part of the offence.

Some people are willing to not take the photos themselves finding other people’s photos sufficient for their masturbatory needs.

I appreciate this post contains deeply unpleasant information, but the people who engage in this offence display extremely unpleasant conduct towards girls and very young women.

I think we all agree with what you've said in your last sentence, muffin.

I'm surprised by the apparent need for more legislation though and wondering why (or even if) current legislation on sexual pestering (such as exposure by males in public places) does not already cover upskirting.

One of the prominent users and moderators of the upskirting communities on Reddit was this guy.

The article that revealed his real identity does not contain any photos, but the text of the article is in parts graphic.

This is the reality of who these offenders target.

gawker.com/5950981/unmasking-reddits-violentacrez-the-biggest-troll-on-the-web

Baggsthere is no legislation at the moment in E&W - why do you think the Government was prepared to give time for it and why did Scotland legislate 10 years ago? Thank you muffin for using appropriate language. I’d certainly read about the ‘premium’ on photos including tampon strings or menstrual blood.

current legislation is not effective and therefore is rarely being used.

The Scots have legislation against "upkilting" - an MP on TV this morning commented that since that covers both sexes it had got through faster.

If I had voted for the creep who blocked it I'd hang my head in shame and try to get him deselected.

I don’t know who Joanna Williams is but making something illegal makes women victims? Like beating or raping your wife?Oh yes I get it now - think how the crime figures could go down

Silly old codger. A disgrace to his party.

You can check her out on joannawilliams.org, mel. She talks a lot of sense.

The "do we actually need more legislation to deal with this" is coming up on Twitter.

www.apccs.police.uk/latest_news/new-law-needed-make-skirting-sexual-offence

When was the last time anyone was convicted?

That’s why we need the legislation - read the link.

thats the tories for you,vile people
I agree with Paddyann.

So you agree with paddyann then, varian, in her illogical conclusion that all tories are vile people because of one renegade and very stupid MP when all the rest of the House was prepared to pass this amendment?

I suggest a group of Gransnetters (perhaps with the help of Mumsnetters) find him, debag him and start taking photos.

His behaviour was outrageous.

I see that you have already suggested that maryeliza!

A lot of women, including Gransnetters, have said that they do not wear knickers these days.

Well, next time I go out in a skirt I will be wearing proper bloomers.

The perverts of England and Wales?
We heard this over the car radio when we were travelling home today and DH queried whether or not this idiot is a pervert.

This is so not a party issue. Trying to make it one just takes away from the real issue. However, this particular MP is not one to be commended and I still don’t understand his knighthood - I suppose there’s a list in date order of being elected and his name was top at New Year. Actually I don’t know why any MPs are knighted actually I don’t know why anyone is knighted ( but that’s for another thread)

It would be nice though if his constituency party issued a statement saying they were not very happy with him

dare we hope for de-selection?

he's a barrister

apologies to any barristers on here.

Well to de-select they would first have to disagree and they haven’t yet. His father was a judge

he must have inherited his lack of judgement from elsewhere then.

Isabel Hardman says: "He is part of a group of MPs with the odd hobby of objecting to Private Members’ Bills on principle because they don’t think that MPs from opposition parties should be able to write laws which could cost the government money or could be very bad policy."

So he was objecting to the bill "on principle" rather than saying that upskirting is okay.

Apparently a lot of Tory MPs are yelling at him tonight, so his 'principle' on PMBs is not shared by all Tories.