Regret it Brexit?

It sounds as if haulage prices will go up as the HMRC man said that it will cost them £32-50 per consignment it takes out of the country - a huge amount of money to the industry as a whole.

The new Irish border system is expected to cost more than our total net annual current EU contributions! Is it really worth it?

The post-Brexit customs system favoured by Boris Johnson and other leading Brexiteers could cost businesses up to £20bn a year, officials have suggested.
The chief executive of HM Revenue and Customs told MPs firms would have to pay £32.50 for each customs declaration under the so-called "max fac" solution.
Jon Thompson said any system may take between three and five years to bed in.
No 10 said the £20bn figure was "speculation" but "issues" remained with both options being considered.
The figure is higher than the £13bn UK contribution to the EU in 2016. from BBC news.

Putting the question of customs and varying tarrifs aside for a moment, consider the movement of people. Immigration was a big issue for the Leave campaign.

If we have no physical controls on the Irish border, any EU citizen who enters the Irish Republic (as all are entitled to do), can casually enter NI and proceed from there to the rest of the UK.

How is that "taking control of our borders"?

There is no inherent reason why physical controls at the Irish border are needed after Brexit

Politics - not a lack of practical solutions - is preventing a solution to the Irish border problem

The Irish border issue need not dictate the Brexit process.

Potential solutions to these problems exist, but are mischaracterised by people who seem determined to deny that they could work. The discussion, more than any in Brexit is plagued with inaccurate assumptions, emotional responses and misreporting

Good article here.

capx.co/how-to-fix-the-irish-border-problem/

Eventually I think it’s a given that Ireland will be united, but from what I hear from relatives there, it’s still a long way off.
Not ‘little’ but Britain Varian and people in NI are very much British, as much as you and me.
Of course they are concerned about the outcome of Brexit and how it will affect them, which is probably why so many wanted to remain in the EU.

What would have been unthinkable 100 years ago in Northern Ireland will likely soon become a reality - Catholics will outnumber Protestants. Historically in Ireland, Catholics have desired independence for Ireland, while Protestants, who congregated in Northern Ireland, have wanted to maintain political ties to the United Kingdom. This is still generally the case, though not without some significant exceptions on both sides. Still, the fact that Catholics may outnumber Protestants in the country by 2021 - 100 years after the country was founded - is remarkable.

Dr. Paul Nolan, who studies the social trends of Northern Ireland, told BBC News: "Three years from now we will end up, I think, in the ironic situation on the centenary of the state where we actually have a state that has a Catholic majority." According to the last census in 2011, Protestants outnumbered Catholics in Northern Ireland by just three percent. More recent numbers show a Catholic majority in every age group of the population, except for those over 60. Among school-aged children, Catholics outnumber Protestants by a wide margin - 51 percent to 37 percent.

Nolan said that unionism - the political ideology of those in Northern Ireland who wish to maintain their political ties with the U.K. - is still possible, though unionists should be aware of this demographic shift.

www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/catholics-likely-to-outnumber-protestants-in-northern-ireland-by-2021-30358

When you consider that NI voted strongly to Remain in the EU, it is likely that it could be, not just Catholics, but pro-EU Protestants, who might eventually prefer living in a united Ireland to a "little Britain"

Allygran ??Quite right!

I can’t see NI wanting reunification any time soon, to think that, means not understanding NI people at all.

Northern Ireland might eventually decide that reunification with the Republic of Ireland is better than Brexit. Break up of the U.K. is a distinct possibility caused by Brexit.

Northern Ireland would vote more strongly to remain in the EU if there was another Brexit referendum, a study has suggested.

More than two-thirds - 69 per cent - would favour Remain if there was another vote, compared with 56 per cent at the actual referendum two years ago, according to the UK in a Changing Europe project.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brexit-northern-ireland-support-remain-dup-border-a8361206.html

The post-Brexit customs system favoured by Boris Johnson and other leading Brexiteers could cost businesses up to £20bn a year, officials have suggested.

The chief executive of HM Revenue and Customs told MPs firms would have to pay £32.50 for each customs declaration under the so-called "max fac" solution. Jon Thompson said any system may take between three and five years to bed in.

No 10 said the £20bn figure was "speculation" but "issues" remained with both options being considered. The figure is higher than the £13bn UK contribution to the EU in 2016. Leading Tory Brexiteer John Redwood said he did not accept what he described as the HMRC's "general figures" but told the BBC that "if it is going to cost this much it is the wrong system".

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44229606

Some of us actually realised before we voted in the referendum that brexit would mean an enormous increase in costs, form-filling, red-tape and beaurocracy.

I would say to John Redwood and other brexiteers "if it is going to cost that much, surely the best scenario would be for us to remain in the EU? how much damage would have to be done before you'd admit you were wrong? "

The fact that Remainers (some) refuse to face the fact that we are leaving the EU MaizieD

Oh, so that justifies hypocrisy does it lemon?

Ally Your post at 22.47 yesterday. You come up trumps every single time, don't you. I predicted thatvwe would get a lecture on how to respind correctly to other posters and just what was permissible to say and what wasn't. I wish I'd put some money on it!

Would you please tell me, and others who are equally bemused, what gives you the impression that you are in control of the debate and of posters' behaviour.?

The question of the Irish border has come to dominate the Brexit negotiations. With the Cabinet deadlocked over the UK’s future customs arrangement with the EU, Downing Street is said to be worried that polls suggest support is growing in Northern Ireland
From "The Week" may 17th 2018

Tony Benn was right in my view, when he said in 1973 "When the British people speak everyone, including members of Parliament, should tremble before their decision and that's certainly the spirit with which I accept the result of the referendum." Oh that there were such honourable people in 2018.

Well Tony Benn continued to campaign against EU membership for the rest of his life. He spoke out against the EU in Parliament throughout the. 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s.

Error apology.
"by reminding some leave voters, that to ignore". This should read:
"by reminding some remain voters, that to ignore"

1973 Referendum BBC (Broadcast at that time)
"Members of the "No" campaign accepted their defeat and promised to work constructively within the EEC.
Industry Secretary Tony Benn, who had come under criticism from the prime minister during the campaign, said: "When the British people speak everyone, including members of Parliament, should tremble before their decision and that's certainly the spirit with which I accept the result of the referendum."
The trade union movement led by the TUC was also opposed to remaining in Europe and had boycotted key advisory positions in Brussels and Luxembourg since Britain joined in 1973.
TUC General-Secretary Len Murray said the boycott would be lifted but he remained adamantly opposed to the EEC. "Many of the most imprtant decisions about our future can only be taken here in Britain," he said."
news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/6/newsid_2499000/2499297.stm

The argument in 2018 between some of the remain voters hinges on overturning the democratic vote of the majority of people in the UK that we should Brexit. Even though that question has passed.

The argument of most of the leave voters as far as I can gather, is I believe to save our democracy from destruction by reminding some leave voters, that to ignore the majority vote of two elections: one advisory and one General: one centred on Brexit and the other Parliamentary candidates running for re-election on a support Brexit mandate, would have consequences that would destroy our way of life in or out of the EU. Democracy would be tossed in the bin.

Can we imagine, I think not, of the consequences of those majority voters being ignored. No matter how constructed that overthrow might be. Our Democracy would never be trusted again, the Parliamentary electoral system would be destroyed.Now perhaps that is what some people want. I fear that some, a minority do.

Tony Benn was right in my view, when he said in 1973 "When the British people speak everyone, including members of Parliament, should tremble before their decision and that's certainly the spirit with which I accept the result of the referendum." Oh that there were such honourable people in 2018.

People who never agreed with the referendum in the 70s spent 40 years not recognising the result - which was a fair majority to join the EU - and doing their best to damage the way people in the U.K. felt about it all - some people had positions of trust and actually wrote lies which whipped people up - you cannot now think that those who passionately believe in the EU and bitterly regret the fact the U.K. wants to leave will simply shut up and say -oh goody gumdrops - it looks like we are in for a really hard time for decades!
We obviously have a very different understanding of the facts which are coming to the fore and the things which the leavers thought were going to be so wonderful do not look quite so wonderful now - trade deals and immigration. Most of the countries - if not all - the U.K. was confident of doing trade deals with - all want no visa free travel for their peoples - Brazil, Australia, Argentina, etc and now Japan! Are the leavers pleased with that or do they not believe it?
Immigration was not a problem as far as I am concerned as I felt most of the immigrants were positive for the country, and although we paid into the EU budget it was a tiny percentage of GDP and we all had so many benefits from being in the bloc.

mostlyharmless Wed 23-May-18 20:34:11
"I’m wondering if the U.K. will endure. Brexit is threatening to split it apart. But Brexiteers don’t seem concerned about that!"

Q AG1: How is Brexit threatening to split the Uk apart?

R MD: " I can’t believe you haven’t noticed.
All going swimmingly in Northern Ireland?
Nicola Sturgeon very unhappy about devolution powers reverting to Westminster? Scotland voted Remain?
Brexiteers seem to have no workable solution to the Irish border problem."

Thank you. This clarity of concern means a discussion/debate can take place. A bold statement lacking detail makes it hard to have any meaningful discussion.

However, having got such interesting topics now, I will not be responding to this or any other posts that contain any sort of aside meant to patronise, belittle or ridicule the person when asking a perfectly reasonable question.
In this case " I can’t believe you haven’t noticed."

This sort of response is so boring for everyone. There has already been a mind numbing competition about what is a "joke" and what isn't.

I just have not got the time to give to time wasters, or engage with those who wish to play games, rather than address real issues of mutual concern.

I would not give my time to someone in the real world who behaved like that, I am certainly not putting up with it on line.

When you want to engage properly then I will respond until then your post will be ignored by me.

The fact that Remainers (some) refuse to face the fact that we are leaving the EU MaizieD

Well, I am just stating the obvious really MaizieD.

What? The rude descriptions of Remainers?

I can’t believe you haven’t noticed.
All going swimmingly in Northern Ireland?
Nicola Sturgeon very unhappy about devolution powers reverting to Westminster? Scotland voted Remain?
Brexiteers seem to have no workable solution to the Irish border problem.

mostlyharmless Wed 23-May-18 20:34:11
"I’m wondering if the U.K. will endure. Brexit is threatening to split it apart. But Brexiteers don’t seem concerned about that!"

How is Brexit threatening to split the Uk apart?

Remainers are worried, not angry.

It always seems to me that it’s the Brexiteers who are constantly angry.

Well, I am just stating the obvious really MaizieD.

Have Remainers accepted the referendum result?

No.

They like to think there is a rift but tbh, it's only their constant anger that sets them apart from those who just want the Government to get on with sorting out the details of the divorce. Leavers aren't fighting them. They are more interested in the road blocks and demands being made by Brussels and the way in which the UK government handles negotiations.

The 'rift' is a Remainer creation and fantasy. It all adds fuel to the fire they want to keep going.

Considering that we have just had several posts devoted to how rude Remainers are to Leavers your post is rather ironic, Day6