Regret it Brexit?

You are right Lemongrove. No system is perfect and never will be.

As for EU Nationals if they want to work here they will apply for a visa and as you say be very welcome as always.

Varian
Graham Gudgin outlines:
" EU Policy Report that identifies international standards and best practices and provide insights into creating a smooth border experience. The technical solution provided is based on innovative approaches with a focus on cooperation, best practices and technology that is independent of any political agreements on the UKs exit from the EU and offers a template for future UK-EU border relationships’.
And:
‘By introducing customs and government border procedures in an innovative and constructive way, there are also benefits for governments and society, including from a safety and security perspective. Instead of looking at Brexit as primarily as a task of minimizing the damage to trade and the movement of people, it could be seen as an opportunity to re-design the border concept and to operationally test a new model on the NI-Ireland border that also conceptually – with modifications – could be used also on the other borders to between EU and UK and potentially as a best practice for other EU external borders.’

It is to be assumed that a free trade arrangement of some description will be agreed since this is very much in the interests of both the UK and the EU. This is particularly in the interests of the Republic of Ireland whose agricultural exports depend heavily on free access into the UK. High EU tariffs on meat and dairy products would, if reciprocated by the UK, make Irish food exports uncompetitive in UK markets, especially if the Euro remains at its post-referendum high relative to sterling. Northern Ireland would survive a ‘no-deal on trade’ scenario since any loss in food exports to Ireland and the rest of the EU could be offset by higher sales into GB replacing the newly uncompetitive exports from the Republic. Some disruption to cross-border production chains, especially in dairying, would occur in Northern Ireland but would soon be overcome.

The problem of the Irish border is thus much less serious that many people have claimed. Attempts to force the UK into the EU customs union are unnecessary to meet its aims. A calm and co-operative approach can deliver an outcome satisfactory to all. The task now is to move swiftly to a free trade agreement and then to implement electronic and other border arrangements to avoid any physical controls at the border."
Author
Dr Graham Gudgin
www.conservativehome.com/platform/2018/02/graham-gudgin-the-eu-report-which-confirms-that-the-irish-border-issue-can-be-resolved-with-technology.html

I have no intention of giving up pointing out the inherent dishonesty of the case that was made for leaving the EU.

Oh give it up Varian we have never totally controlled our borders , that’s how illegal immigrants get here, hidden in lorries etc.there will always be some enterprising individuals who get in that way.
EU nationals could slip in from Ireland ( I didn’t seem to say it, I did say it) but why would they if working here was made difficult.
We will still need people from the EU and they will be welcome if we need them to fill jobs, the difference being we can turn them down if we don’t need them.

Thank you Lemongrove.

So far I've had two replies to my question about controlling our borders. One said no-one would want to come here. The other seemed to be admitting any EU citizen could come, but could not work without documentation. We have always had a "black" or "grey" economy, no-one knows the scale of it.

Thank you for these attempts to answer the question. What you seem to be saying is that far from "taking back control", we will have no control of our borders - but that won't matter .

If these are the best answers we can hope to get from the brexiters, they should attempt to be less dishonest and stop repeating the empty promise of "take back control".

I note Allygran is not asking joelsnan for evidence of number lies she says are equal.

joelsnan you were the one who said there were equal numbers of lies on both sides. I didn't say anything about lies, I just wondered if you had counted them to make that assertion.

I think you have been commendably polite all through this thread Allygran and your posts are interesting and well put.

As to the question a poster put about EU nationals slipping through any Irish border and then into mainland Britain, yes, they could but they wouldn't have any documentation
In order to do a job here, and would become illegal immigrants, so hard to see any (many) EU citizens doing this.

Sorry Alli, I just can’t help laughing.Dont worry about , it is impossible for you to see.
However I am pleased my thread has reached nearly 1000 post, so I’m sure the few ‘ off piste’ ones haven’t detracted too much from the original topic.
Peace & love to moaners & mainers?

Thanks, Joelsnan, no problem ?

Bridget said: "I’m sorry Allygran1, it’s impossible, everyone of us has a blind spot. your input of opinions & knowledge is interesting & great for instigating meaningful debate,but telling others how they should express, back up , substantiate their opinions is just not necessary, either you understand what they are saying or you don’t ,but don’t keep telling others that they have to substantiate every opinion with a lengthy discourse of how they arrived at said opinion."

Methinks this is a case of glass houses and stone Bridgeit. A blind spot perhaps, that you are doing what you accuse me of. Now I will post with courtesy, I will challenge bold unsubstantiated statements were sources are not shown. I will post cut and paste where it confirms, denys or supports a point, be a long or short. If anyone wishes to read it fine, if they don't that's fine too.
A little self reflection is required here Bridgeit. I responded because I have found you approachable but I won't respond again if you personalise post's. Play the ball not the player.

Sincere apologies Bridgeit my re read request should have been directed at mostlyharmless

Gerispringer back to you, have you also counted the lies?As I said before, both sides haveselective hearing and understanding based on the way they voted.

varian
Why would anyone want to come via Northern Ireland to the grey, bankrupt dystopian xenophobic uk after Brexit, this being the view that Remainers on here seem to portray.

As someone said earlier perhaps well all be microchipped like pets and then we called all walk through cat flap type doors at the ports. That would be invisible wouldnt it?

I can’t understand this invisible border thing either varian.

Varian lets face it the government haven't bothered to control the borders it can already control so I'm sure they aren't suddenly going to up their border control game in 12 months time. The "hostile environment" was supposed to compensate for the lack of border control. So we won't stop anyone crossing the border, we'll just be nasty to them when they get here.

joelsnan i don't know how you can say there were an equal number of lies- were you counting? Has scale of lies been taken into account?

I know I've asked this question before but I would genuinely like to have it answered. Is it unanswerable or just one of those many questions that the brexiters like to avoid?

Putting the question of customs and varying tarrifs aside for a moment, consider the movement of people. Immigration was a big issue for the Leave campaign. If we have no physical controls on the Irish border, any EU citizen who enters the Irish Republic (as all are entitled to do), can casually enter NI and proceed from there to the rest of the UK.

How is that "taking control of our borders"?

Perhaps it should go on the side of a bus.

joelsnan what post do you mean? The post saying Remainers should accept the Brexit decision?

Are you getting me confused with someone else Joelsnan?

^Gerispringer* Another one! Please re read my post

mostlyharmless maybe you should re read it too