Unions and strikes -a real threat or just a succesful media promotion.

Let's hope that Jeremy acts promptly as it has been claimed by some that Hampstead and Kilburn constituency Labour party is 'out of control'.

Oh - it was nearly two weeks ago - is there an update on what he has done?

Good grief!

Just shows how low some will sink

What horrible people they are.

Labour Left-wingers refused to honour a minute’s silence in honour of the late Tessa Jowell and heckled during a fractious branch meeting. Members of Hampstead and Kilburn constituency Labour Party said they were shocked when a woman shouted that Baroness Jowell had voted to “murder a lot of people” by backing welfare reforms and she would not take part in the silence to respect her memory. A small group of Left-wing activists at the meeting then declined to take part.

Tessa Jowell believed passionately in Surestart so she helped so many children to have a better start in life.

The Trade unions created the Parliamentary Labour party over a century ago and to this day it remains as an integral part of the Wider Labour movement. Tony Blair and his cohorts tried to push the Trade Unions to one side while at the same time still accepting them paying the vast majority of the party's bills.

What did the above bring to the Labour Party. It began with placing Bankers' self serving interests before party members, ending in the financial crash of 2008.

It then allowed the view of President Bush to override the view of the wider Labour movement in the country, leading to the disaster of the Iraq war.

Blair and Brown then did next to nothing in regard to replacing social housing sold off under conservative legislation which began the housing crisis we have today.

Blair and Brown did nothing to reduce the draconian trade union legislation introduced by successive Conservative governments which has brought many employees today to be on zero hours contracts or others having to seek whatever work they can find in the gig economy.

When that so called Labour Government was voted out of office in 2010 the party had the lowest membership figures in its history and was financially on its knees as many of the trade unions had reduced their financial affiliation to the Labour party with RMT ceasing affiliations all together.

Much more could be added to the above that would demonstrate the failure of so called centre Labour party thinking and policy. However, the foregoing brought about a renewed grsssroots radical ambition, resulting in the formation of Momentum. Along with that the trade unions once more exert their influence through regaining positions held in the party and through that bringing forward alternative political thinking in its policies.

As stated, the Parliamentary Labour is once again an integral part of the wider Labour movement in the UK. Those which cannot accept that should move on and perhaps join the Conservative party, as many of those seem to prefer their policies anyway.

Whether the above will bring the Labour party to government may well be tested in the next coming few months. In that I do not support all that is being stated and proposed in the Labour party at present. However, I do support the fact that the parliamentary party is once more a true part of the overall Labour movement in the country and it is those members whose views are in prominence once again for better or for worse.

If they knew the Wednesday before her death she spent the evening with Alistair Cambell and Fiona and Derry Irvine and Alison they would have blown a fuse .

If they couldn’t give Tessa the respect she earned, well, all one expect from a pig is a grunt

Off piste I know, but apparently Corbynisters (sp) disrupted a minutes silence held for Tessa Jowell! Apparently because she worked with Tony Blair, and was, it is claimed, responsible for murdering people!! If this is true, that poor lady! words completely fail me!!

However, it happened in the 60's and I would imagine most of the people who were responsible are dead.

That may be true - however, we need to learn from history and not let it be repeated. We do need unions, but allowing Union leaders to become all-powerful again is not the right way forward for this country and not good for democracy. It is just as bad as those in charge of huge companies becoming too powerful and not answerable to anyone - neither way is in the interest of the economy or the country.

Yes Eleothan, most people responsible for what happen in Aberfan are dead from old age . Many who died would have been grannies now and perhaps on this forum. Not the young mothers who took their own lives after the enquiry though.

Your right Anniebach it seems everything now is London-centric!

I long to see the return of the real Labour Party . Oh for the party conferences when freedom of speech was the norm, even if at times stormy .

The recent Labour Party political broadcast gave us a school in Islington, a youth club in Islington, sod the rest of the U.K.

This post is a re-post from another thread about Brexit. However it is about the Trade Unions and Momentum and this years LPC. The Unions it seems are combining with Momentum on pushing for a far left radical agenda for a Corbyn led Government. So I hope you think it is relevant to this post. If not sorry for wasting your time.

Allygran1 Tue 29-May-18 16:25:31
A Labour Party in internal ideology conflict. The battle between far left activist group Momentum and Trade Unions who want a puppet Government in the UK Parliament so that they can pull the strings of power!

A report in the Guardian says: "At last year’s Labour conference in Brighton, Momentum and some of the unions joined forces to prevent the Brexit issue being debated in order to avoid exposing the party split and embarrassing the relatively Eurosceptic Corbyn. At the time, many of his MPs and peers were pushing for him to back permanent membership of the single market.
This year the arguments over Brexit look likely to be even more heated and calls for a debate will be far more difficult to resist in September, when the date of the UK’s departure will be less than six months away."

"Michael Chessum, who was on Momentum’s first steering committee in 2016/17 and is now national organiser of the leftwing anti-Brexit group"
“ I’m confident that they will support the right of members to democratically debate issues as pivotal as Brexit and free movement. There should be a consensus around that"

Twenty something Chessums confidence in my view no doubt comes from the support that Momentum gave mob handed during the General Election campaign to support Corbyn's campaign. Deals been struck and Corbyn will no doubt have to deliver his side of the deal now.

Twenty something, "Michael Chessum, national organiser of the anti-Brexit group Another Europe is Possible: ‘It is urgent that we clearly place an alternative to Brexit on the table– one linked to a radical vision for society under a Corbyn-led Labour government.”
Chessum should have said far left Marxist/Trotsky Government under Corbyn. Radical I suspect being code of far left communist state ownership of everything. Home ownership will disappear and the right to freedom of speech will, as is being witnessed by non far left wing labour party members and MPs, now, is being squashed by personal attack, taunts and even physical threats of violence and degrading acts against women MP's, all intended to silence if not enforce conformity to the far left line.

I predict that there will be an attempt to oust Corbyn by the real Labour Party, if that fails, then we will see a reclaiming of the name Labour from the Corbyn led far left controlled by Momentum and increasingly of necessity The Trade Unions who need the additional political activist muscle. With a break away Labour Party that the moderate left and centre will be happy to associate with and vote for the tables will be turned and the proud Labour name reclaimed for the traditional Labour voter.

Should an alternative Labour Party emerge the ground swell will be from outside of London I predict. This will bring the internal Labour Party conflict into the open. My view is that the far left will be pushed to the margins by the real Labour Party voters if they are given an alternative party with Labour values with which they can associate and vote for.

Union influence on the Labour Party is acceptable so long as it does not attempt to overthrow the labour vote at the general election when Corbyn stood on a pro-Brexit platform. For the Momentum activist and the Trade Unions to come together to attempt to subvert the General Election labour vote is an act of sabotage against democracy.

Pasted elements in this Post are from:
www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/26/corbyn-under-pressure-momentum-give-members-vote-labour-brexit-policy?C

Lemon grove well said!

Annie x

Annie x

My views, have not changed, I support unions when they work for their members , I do not support unions controlling governments. I am against restricting the power of unions to defend their workers, I am against Corbyn giving even stronger power to the unions.

I only bring up Aberfan when praise I say heaped on unions for their dedication to the people since they were formed. I don’t give a fig that is was fifty one years ago. I care deeply the unions didn’t support us and protected the head of the NCB, that ‘stream ‘ was running into the village when my father was in that school, he would be 101 years old this week, it was running into the village when I was in that school. Yes my life has been scared by that day, I watched fathers, grandfathers and uncles digging out their children’s bodies, I watched my father cry as he said ‘I helped put that muck which has killed all those little ones up there. But the deep scars were caused by the deceit which followed, the villagers had to fight, no union support , in fact union betrayal and a PM trapped in their power.

Eleothan, dig away, I admit it is unpleasant being stalked, being the stalker is at best sad, at worse vile.

For new posters when Corbyn stood for leader I supported him and said so, I then learned things I was unaware of so to quote Margaret Hodge- I thought he was an honourable man But he is a devious man intent on destroying the Labour Party,

If you read my last sentence - "of course people can alter their views re various issues and people ..." I have already acknowledged the point you make.

Gransnet is a public forum and people who post on the threads do so in that knowledge. It would, I think, other than in the most serious cases of public interest, be underhand and unfair to quote from a private messages or material that has been obtained by deception. In my view, it is reasonable to point out the discrepancies and contradictions in what a poster has publicly declared at various times.

Am sure that annie will give you her own views Eloethan but you have done this ‘digging up old threads’ thing before a few times now, you may not care what others think, but it seems an unpleasant trait to me.
People who cannot change their views when circumstances alter become reactionary stick in the muds.

lemongrove It was terrible what happened with Aberfan and many people bore responsibility but, it seems, they were not properly held accountable. However, it happened in the 60's and I would imagine most of the people who were responsible are dead.

Throughout this thread - and many others - anniebach has been highly critical of unions and their leaders, and has frequently referred to Aberfan as an example of the evils of unions.

As for me "digging up old threads", I really don't care whether you believe it gives me no credit - I am not courting your - or anyone else's - approval. As with "tricky" politicians, I question the integrity of someone who says one thing on one day and something entirely different on another. Of course, people can alter their views re various issues and people but that is not the same as giving completely opposing interpretations of various events.

Further to that Eloethan your constant digging into old threads does you no credit, it’s the forum equivalent of nosy parker readings of old postcards or net curtain twitchers.
Annie is a Labour supporter just as you are, but the difference is that she sees Corbyn as the old Marxist that he is, not as the saviour of the masses.

I think Eloethan that your post is a typical, ‘let’s quickly move on, nothing to see here!’ Comment, regarding the NUM.
as Allygran rightly says your defence of the trade union movement is not required, this is about a specific event, and the fact that it was in the 1960’s is neither here nor there.

"Eloethan Mon 28-May-18 23:39:03
Aberfan happened in the 1960s. There were many shameful things happening then - and in years to come people will no doubt look back and see many shameful things that have happened since that time - Hillsborough, Grenfell, etc. etc. and they won't all be the fault of unions."

Hi Eloethan,

Although your post is directed at Anniebach. I have to say that in my view the criticism of the NUM is solely about the Aberfan disaster. It does not imply that any other Union is being criticised nor is the NUM being criticised outside of the context of Aberfan. The behaviour of the NUM then, and in the subsequent investigations of the Aberfan disaster is all that is in question in Anniebach post as far as I can see.

It would seem your defence of the Trade Union movement as a whole is not required. Anniebach criticism is singular and specific, not plural and general. It surprises me that you could construe from the post by Anniebach anything other.

Aberfan happened in the 1960s. There were many shameful things happening then - and in years to come people will no doubt look back and see many shameful things that have happened since that time - Hillsborough, Grenfell, etc. etc. and they won't all be the fault of unions.

anniebach Your constant criticism of unions is in marked contrast to your comments of 2015:

"Anyway this Thatcherite government is hard at work making the Labour Party a minor party, change of boundaries - as did thatcher - attacking the unions - as did thatcher, we do not have a tory government we have a thatcher government, greed is good is back"

"So much is said on the winter of discontent during a labour government term, yes it was difficult but the whole country struggled with it. What of the years of discontent under the thatcher government ? Riots in the streets, rise in homeless , the divide between North and South , the whole country didn't struggle, the rich got richer and the poor got poorer..."

And then, in 2017, your interpretation of historic political events appeared to undergo a complete transformation:

"What I can remember of the strikes in the seventies

Power strikes
Miners strikes
Bakers strike
Dock strikes
Lorry drivers strike
Ambulance driver strike
Bin collections strike
Grave diggers strike"

Annibach The trauma of Aberfan is something I imagine that will be with you for ever. Your anger is born out of the experiences of that time. The tragedy itself was compounded by the National Union of Mineworkers, failing to support the villagers, many of whom were employed by the NCB and were NUM members. It is hard even now to find archived documents that show any support from the NUM during the struggle to reach the truth about the source of the 'slip'. Even Harold Wilson said it was caused by an underground stream if I remember this correctly. To be fair he was most likely briefed to say that, but nevertheless I never heard him withdraw that comment.

Grandad mentions the 1974 legislation that came about out of the disaster and was sadly not available to bring the NCB culprits to justice, however what he does not say is, I understand your grief, and your anger that the National Union of Mineworkers were invisible, ineffectual and cowardly. No institution is perfect and Aberfan stands out like a beacon of shame on the NUM as well as the NCB.