Italian Voters Reject the EU - Eurosceptic parties win Italian election.

Fennel 6th March 17:48
Centre political groups are in electoral decline worldwide as large sections of society in numerous states are no longer finding answers to their problems in centre political thinking in regard to the decline in their expectations and living standards.

As is being discussed in this thread, Italy in recent days has seen the electoral growth of "hard right" political parties and the decline of centrist parties. In the foregoing I believe the election result is a protest vote against "the establishment" rather than any real belief in the "neo fascist" policies of some of the parties that achieved success in the poll.

History easily points us to where hardship has brought forward the extreme in politics (by example, Germany and Italy in the 1930s and Russia in 1917). Those developments brought instability and conflict worldwide and if the present political trends continue similar problems are very likely to manifest themselves once again.

For centrist political thinking to succeed it must demonstrate that it can provide employment and employment security, a reasonable standard of income for its working population, accessible secure housing at reasonable cost and limit inequality across the population.

Sadly, in recent years, many governments in leading democratic country's have not provided the above to their populations and in that we are witnessing the decline of consensus politics to the detriment and security of all

(That was to your previous comment Day)

. I’d stopped bothering with that thread too. I shall follow this thread while there’s a proper discussion (and maybe even stick my oar in) until the Remoaners get their hands on it.

Blimey Suzied - you not only sneer at those in the UK who voted to leave the EU, but now all Italians who are anti-EU are not worthy either. How disparaging.

Are you so thick-skinned that you don't realise you are doing it?

You wrote - "Brexiteers who are wetting themselves with excitement because there is a small majority in Italy for populists ( think UKIP with a few piercings and tattoos) who are not even united ( there is more than one party) as it might validate their beliefs".

How scornful. It says so much about you.

Oh and virtually everything I have read on-line from left and right wing sources and 'independent' ones, describes the Italian election result as worrying for Brussels, without a doubt.

"No, you just missed it. We had it on the Brexit thread yesterday."

Ah. That's why I missed it. Last time I looked in on that thread the only contributors were the usual few Remainers posting pessimistic articles to each other to console themselves. I left them to it. I didn't want to interrupt the flow of gloom and doom.

that's a bit of an offensive remark if you don't mind me saying.
I am a remainer and wouldn't use those kinds of words - you must know which ones I mean.

Brexiteers who are wetting themselves with excitement because there is a small majority in Italy for populists ( think UKIP with a few piercings and tattoos) who are not even united ( there is more than one party) as it might validate their beliefs in the evil Eu , should realise that Italy is a deeply divided country with complex political landscape that has had hung parliaments for eons and is unlikely to suddenly herald the breakup of the EU they so despaerately desire.

I think Brexiteers are hoping that other countries in Europe follow them off the cliff as then it validates their beliefs. I don’t think Brexiteers have any interest in the Italian , German or French people and what matters to them.

I get the feeling that some hardline brexiteers rejoice in anything that threatens the unity of the EU. Personally I am increadingly worried by the fact that there are countries outside the EU who apparently share that view and who could even be actively trying to sabotage relations between countries in the western world. I fear for the peace that so many seem to take for granted now, but which history shows is a fragile thing that can end so quickly.
But no doubt I will immediately called a scaremonger by those who like to ridicule anyone who doesn't share their own views!

There’s plenty of unrest both ways in Europe ( including the UK)
and unrest can mean people looking for change from the status quo.

The BBC has been particularly quiet too, as have our own Remainers on Gransnet.

No, you just missed it. We had it on the Brexit thread yesterday. I posted a post from the 'other place' written by an expat living in Italy. Here is is again:

5 star aren’t the fascists, the natural heirs to the fascist party are Fratelli d’Italia. The Lega are anti- establishment, nationalists and anti immigration ( since they broadened out from just hating the South of Italy). 5 Star are anti establishment and anti corruption and for the moment no longer anti Europe. They have also proved to be shite governers of Rome where I live over the last few years so I have no faith in them doing better on a larger scale. The Lega and 5 Star have done the best in these elections and both are talking about their responsibility to govern but think any collation between them (which 5 star always swore they would never do with anyone until 5 mins ago!) would really antagonize the left of 5 star. The bots and the brexiteers have been out in force today trying to make this all about leading to the collapse of the EU. And the Anglophone press are spouting similar rubbish. Reminiscent of the French and Dutch elections -the pattern is if nothing else consistent. The only thing that seems clear at the moment is that PD and Renzi have had a shocker. The rest...what form a coalition will take or whether we go to the polls again remains to be seen.

It should also be noted that the extent of Italian Euroscepticism varies according to which of the UK newspapers you're reading. I think Leavers are reading far more into this election result than is likely as they desperately want another of the EU27 to join our national suicide pact. They've been disappointed so far with France, The Netherlands, Austria and Germany...

According to Reuters the 5Star party was moving away from Euroscepticism and, as far as I can see from their reports, they never proposed a referendum on leaving the EU, just on leaving the Euro.

This report is from December:

www.yahoo.com/news/italys-5-star-sheds-anti-eu-image-calls-180317607.html

An EU referendum is not top of the list of demands by Italian voters by any means. Those who blame the EU for African and Arab migrants ( not EU migrants unlike the UK) will not necessarily have their wishes met any time soon.

There’s plenty of unrest both ways in Europe ( including the UK)

Italy has a huge north/ south divide in terms of economic well-being, the north being prosperous, the south many well below the EU average.

It is still the 3rd largest national economy in the eurozone, though and other countries have more to be disgruntled about

I'm not getting excited but any vote that makes the eu think "oh, that isn't what we wanted" is good news in my book
I don't think the Italians would vote to leave. To put it politely: they are not like us.

"I don’t think Brexiteers can get too excited about the result of the Italian elections."

I don't think they are. Why should they? We had our referendum and we are leaving.

What I do think is interesting is the unrest in Europe, which so many seem blind to.

CNN reports - "The result will be met with alarm by European leaders who feared that big wins for Italy's anti-establishment parties would spell further trouble for a continent already struggling to cope with the destabilizing rise of populist and far-right movements in France, Germany and elsewhere."

I find that worrying. It's nothing to celebrate but it would indicate that the people are using their vote to highlight their grievances regarding EU supremacy and economic conditions throughout the bloc.

Combined with the fact that large swathes of Eastern Europe has steadfastly rejected Brussels directives to take their quota of refugees, cherry picking surely . Wondering how all this ties into Guy Verhofstad's vision of greater federal union when it seems some member states want far less EU input.

I don’t think anyone is getting ‘excited’ by Italian politics, but think it is a setback for the EU, and certainly will be if the people are offered a referendum, perhaps next year.
Nothing will be done in the short term.

Berlesconi and his ilk are not necessarily politicians we should be excited about associating with.

I don’t think Brexiteers can get too excited about the result of the Italian elections. The populist parties ( there are more than one) did get a majority of votes, mainly on an anti immigrant platform ( not Eu immigrants, but those who wash up on the Italian southern shores) Italy has a huge north/ south divide in terms of economic well-being, the north being prosperous, the south many well below the EU average. It was overwhelmingly the southern voters who voted for one or other of the populist parties. There is a hung parliament, which will take weeks if not months to form a functioning government. Any government formed will be unlikely to make any quick major political changes. Italian politics are more complex than those of the UK , have long been dogged with huge divisions and no little corruption. I do have Italian relatives and they have little faith in the current political system in Italy.

It’s what happens when unpopular decsions are imposed by
The bureaucracy of something like the EU, even more than when it is imposed by your own government.

We went to Rome in 2016 the day after our Brexit vote, when the Italians heard that we were English they were coming over to us saying that they wished they were coming out of the EU, the taxi drivers were so angry about their economy and blamed the EU, they all wanted a referendum as well.

The EU policies ( single market) and immigration, so many
Going to settle in Italy have no doubt led to this right wing win at the polls.
France could go the same way next time.

I think some people are ‘gobsmacked’ by it, but it was bound to happen.

The BBC has been particularly quiet too, as have our own Remainers on Gransnet.

Deafening SILENCE: Not one EU bigwig speaks as Italy issues DEVASTATING result to Brussels

"THE European Union’s Donald Tusk and Jean-Claude Juncker remained damningly silent over the Italian election result today which showed a nation’s contempt for the Brussels project."

I was reading a comments section in one of yesterday's on-line papers and one wag suggested that Brussels was silent because it was hastily trying to find a way to declare the Italian elections results invalid and how it could demand a re-run until the result favoured the EU.