The Poverty of Brexit

I can't see that the EU are "punishing", apart from repeating that the UK cannot expect to have their cake and eat it. They haven't wavered from this position. I seem to remember some on here being thrilled with May agreeing to stage one of the negotiations, which was basically what she could have done months before. Who is talking the country down? The government are making a good job of this themselves.

But Brexit isn't about being in "splendid isolation" mostlyharmless if it were, we wouldn't be seeking trade deals with the rest of the world and maintaining our links with the Commonwealth.

You mean the Commonwealth that may not exist in a decade or so? Oh, and the world that is beginning to tell us very loudly that we are at the back of the queue and they will take away what trade they have with us?

Yes, we're terminating our contract and IMO it's very one sided.

I agree Gracesgran that "a proportion of the country feels that grow up is the relevant phrase" but for those who constantly talk about the doom and gloom of Brexit, who can't or won't accept the result of the referendum and seem intent on talking this country down, seeing us as incapable of survival without membership of the EU.

Only 150% ? Surely not.

When and how did they treat us with such contempt and little respect, Smileless. These are negotiations between equals. I think, a proportion of he country feels that "grow up" is the relevant phrase for all of them. There seems to be a huge amount of hubris around in GB these days.

Oh for heavens sake; we are paying what we owe them; they didn't ask us to leave. We're terminating our 'contract'.

Yes they've been very clear suzied that they want to make us pay for wanting to leave.

I remember reading that we have been promised 150% of the world's trade by Boris if we leave the EU!

I can't see how the EU is adopting "bully boy " techniques - they have been clear from day one what they would accept, and haven't moved from that position, and asked repeatedly what the UK wants - it's our esteemed "negotiators" who've been prevaricating, being unclear over what they actually want from negotiations, being unprepared, and making U turns. Its still not clear to many of us what the UK's position actually is, apart from meaningless slogans.

PS OMG in the film a sociologist is quoted as saying that in a democracy everybody becomes an expert. That is followed by a series of photo's of what I'm sure many would regard as being representative of the working class.

is this an attempt to portray the majority of those who voted Brexit as not having the necessary 'expertise' to know what they were voting for? Interestingly, the overall age of those in the photographs were middle aged and not selfish oldies living in the past and only thinking of themselves.

But our world trading deals are restricted which is why we can't enter into full blown negotiations until we leave the EU.

I have just watched a trailer, it's in black and white, maybe to emphasise how depressing leaving the EU will be, and TBH it's a party political broadcast by the EU. Apparently we are the country that's destroying the EUif we are so pivotal to the EU why do they treat us with such contempt and little respect. Perhaps our importance explains the EU's 'bully boy tactics' regarding the negotiations.

I hope you enjoy it Tegan. Of course I've only seen the trailer, that was enough for me. Hopefully you'll let us know what you thought of the production. This might help you get through it.

A review describes it as "A sociological portrait of the UK after the historic Brexit vote of 2016. A funny, sometimes terrifying non judgemental (yeah I bet) look at the new populist politics sweeping western democracies". Not just taking a swipe at the UK then.

But we trade with the rest of the world anyway and we have always maintained our links with the commonwealth; in what way have we not done so?? I'm off to see a film called Bextitannia in a bit. For those who think us remainers are aggressive I must point out that I've been dreading this evening to the point of having nightmares about it. There is a Q&A with the director afterwards. It is in an EU financed cinema that shows a lot of European financed films but in a very pro brexit area. I may be gone some time......

Yet distancing ourselves from our closest neighbours and allies smileless.

But Brexit isn't about being in "splendid isolation" mostlyharmless if it were, we wouldn't be seeking trade deals with the rest of the world and maintaining our links with the Commonwealth.

Yes I agree ww. It’s impossible to push back the tide of globalism.
We live in an interconnected world with internet, email, international news, TV programmes and film.
Many families are linked to other cultures by marriage or by children or have members living and/or working abroad. The world has shrunk. Britain can’t expect to live in “splendid isolation” any more.

Perfect, whitewave. So true.

Interesting extract whitewave, that said I don't agree.

Extract from an article in politics.co by Dunt

pbs.twimg.com/media/DV7ODckX4AAXPXu?format=jpg

Well it was the 'sneering' at remainers Gracesgran, references to them being misguided and selfish that prompted my post. "Until the old lady who only thought of the past and themselves..." and you have the nerve to accuse Brexiteers of sneering, making up names and producing only vile emotion with which to attack.

Older leavers are also parents and grand parents so why is it assumed that when they voted they were thinking only of the past and themselves?

As you've posted whitewave "the evidence about a post Brexit Britain wasn't available to the young or indeed any of us" so I fail to see how that justifies so few of the young bothering to vote.

Does it not occur to any brexiter that the evidence about a post Brexit Britain was not available to the young or indeed any of us and perhaps the young would indeed have got off their backsides and Voted remain in their hundreds of thousands as would a lot of those who voted for Brexit and now understand what the future post-brexit means.

Democracy is not a vote on one day Smileless (interesting choice of name). The battle will go on until it has been or cannot be turned back - and then it will start again until the old who only thought of the past and themselves are no longer with us.

The division is so real. Brexiteers sneer at remainers and make up names and yet can produce so little other than vile emotion to attack with - no facts, that is not the currency they deal in; just emotion.

There is the leavers truth and the remainers truth and the only thing that will show which is an actual truth is the coming reality. Poorer, with less available and a smaller country in a bigger world. That's what the leavers will have done and they will leave the young to deal with it.

I'll be 57 this year, voted for Brexit, would do the same again and resent being referred too as 'misguided' Smithy.

The young had their opportunity to 'put their point across' in the referendum GG but not enough of them 'got of their backsides' to do so.

The cry that those who voted to remain are altruistic and those that voted to leave are selfish is becoming extremely boring.

I do think we need the young to put their point across Smithy. I know many of us on here were remain voters but I have a feeling it will have to be the young that do the getting off their backsides bit. Like you I feel let down by the current generation of politicians. If you go to the crowd funding page you can see a short video and perhaps you will see that a younger person speaking to younger people could swell the numbers who actively fight against this selfish vote. We haven't a lot of time and he is right when he says Whose going to be looking for a job in that economy? Whose going to be raising a family it that economy? Whose going to be looking for a mortgage in that economy? but it is us, the older generation, who need to encourage our young to get up and shout that this isn't what we want.

Dunt

“There is something truly toxic about a country pursuing an agenda so widely opposed by its young”

Thank you both maize and gg

Another comment on the government and Brexit

pbs.twimg.com/media/DV6In2TXUAAFxmj?format=jpg