The Irish question

You were asking about what should be done in the real world.
If the government handed over the proper statements that they had done, so we could all see that we would lose out, then have a second referendum, it would solve the problem.
I hope those in the real world have better things to do than read gransnet.
I know my MP does.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-divorce-bill-cost-theresa-may-pressure-reveal-tory-mps-a8085791.html

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-nhs-sir-vince-cable-eu-300m-a-week-stop-budget-a8088756.html

Of course I would vote the same way again! You are suggesting I should only vote for who I thought would win!

It’s simply wishful thinking to imagine that vast swathes of the country who voted Leave now regret it.
The way the EU are behaving has reinforced my view that leaving this arrogant and corrupt organisation is the right one.
Armchair pundits on GN cannot solve the question of the Irish problem, in fact it’s all down to Eire, although I would think that in private the EU negotiators will put some pressure on them, because they need our money.
The government have said no to hard borders, ( UK) and nobody in Ireland wants it, so whatever is left, probably
Tech online for goods will be the answer, but in the end , yes, we do have to leave it for the government to sort out since Gransnet is not running anything ( except chat!)

No, NFK. I am suggesting that now we know more about the consequences of our decision, we are allowed to change our minds.
You can't say you have learnt nothing new since the referendum about the difficulties of leaving the EU, and the problems being stored up for our children and grandchildren.

It's not wishful thinking at all, lemon. Surveys are not wishful thinking.

Just about everyone on Gransnet has a vote, though, lemon.
Are we not allowed to say what we think about anything?
If that's what you think, why do you bother being on the politics threads?

I don't think we will get another vote but I trust that Parliament will when we know what 'leaving' actually means.

We can’t allow such a generation destroying decision to once again be at the vagaries of a protest vote. To use a favoured phrase of the Maybot - nothing will have changed for those folk left behind- parliament must vote on the final outcome

Incredible as it may seem WW, I have actually met quite a few people who voted remain because it was the status quo and better the devil you know, who having thought it through more, now wish they'd voted leave. But you won't believe that.

50% want a second referendum because they feel they were not given enough information the first time.
I've never met a single remainer who has changed his or her mind.

NfkDumpling what sort of people do you meet? Someone who voted remain because they favoured stability but looks at the current shambles and now want to leave? It sounds not just unreasonable but positively barking!

The Remainers I know think the country is touched with insanity.

Funny you should mention stability, one reason given was the way so many EU countries are in the do-do. Debt, unemployment, and even Germany is having trouble forming a government.

Every EU countries economy is growing faster than the U.K. so not quite so much in the do do that we are in and sinking fast.

That was one of the original Leave reasons NfkDumpling I wonder why they ignored it then but have changed their mind now?

I hope the Irish stick up for themselves and so do the other 26 and we stop this absurd Brexit before it happens. Just saying.

Just agreeing, wheniwasyourage.

Possible Irish border in the sea then?

DUP will get hysterical. It will please Sinn Fein though.

I think it is much more likely that we will be in something like the EEA than have a border in the sea.

First the biggest difficulty was the money, then the people (I am personally not convinced that is sorted) and then Ireland. The next difficulty is going to be freedom of movement.

We know a percentage - possibly a large percentage voted to leave because of this but that, by no means indicates that a majority did. I will have to be sorted so it is workable.

gg that would be my preference -EEA

So GG and whitewave do you think JunkerTusk/Merkel et al will allow the island of Ireland to NOT have to abide by the Four Pillars / Four Freedoms of the EU/EEA/EFTA ?

Do you think that EU will insist on Northern Ireland remaining in the Single Market and Customs Union as per the current Treaties ?

If the latter was the case do you think that would create any problems for Northern Ireland trading with the rest of the UK.?

I don’t know pogs what do you think?

WhenIwas

" I hope the Irish stick up for themselves ".

There is an irony in that statement when the Irish held a referendum over the Lisbon Treaty they voted NO and yet that democratic vote was not accepted and on the second referendum voted YES. I wonder where we would be if the Irish had stuck up for themselves and not only them the UK too in forcing the government to give us even a referendum.

As we know the UK was not allowed a vote on the Lisbon Treaty by Blair and Gordon Brown although there were calls for one, again ironically by the Lib Dems and when Parliament voted Jeremy Corbyn I believe voted NO to the Lisbon Treaty.

Brown of course signed the Lisbon Treaty in 2007 and was mocked for the manner with which he carried out the signing . Parliament ratified the Lisbon Treaty in 2008. Open to be challenged if I am mistaken.

Many would say the way Blair and Brown handled the Lisbon Treaty it reignited the eurosceptic mood and oddly those voices who were so sceptic of the Lisbon Treaty in 2008 are only a few years later forgetful of what they said and thought at the time.

That's politics for you.

Indeed!! It's ALL so - hypocritical?! The only thing I regret is not abstaining. If asked again, I most certainly wouldn't repeat that mistake.