Dia Chakravarty on Vince

That must be the easiest money that journalist has ever earned! The figures have been analysed to death since June 2016 and anyone who cared that much would already know it.

However, there's no denying that it was the oldies vote that swung it just because of the sheer weight of our numbers. And that the higher your level of education the more likely you were to vote Remain. That's not twisting anything, that's what the data say.

y not i

One doesn't have to get through a paywall to see the article in full, though thank you to primrose for précis-ing it.

All I did was register with the Telegraph for the ability to see a small number of articles per month. It doesn't cost anything and every once in a while, as with Chakravarty's article here, there's something I want to check out if I see a reference to what looks as if it might be interesting on Twitter.

What I agreed with is what Chakravarti wrote: that the commonly expressed view by people like Vince Cable that Brexit voters are old, uneducated bigots and racists is completely wrong. People have been taken in, willingly and as usual, by twisted statistics.

I was responding to you, actually, Jalima

talk amongst yourselves.

That's exactly what I wrote, Maizie.
Strange that the other sentence was picked up, not that one.

Well, probably not as much with the UK as they would have done since the UK abandoned South Africa, Australia and New Zealand in favour of its new friends in the EU.

The EU is now their 'new friends'. Australia said months ago that it was more interested in doing a deal with the EU than with the UK. And why was that? Because the EU is a market ten times larger than the UK..

Lots of countries came through the UK because we were the gateway to the EU.
We will no longer be so. That will be Germany or France.

Hindsight's a wonderful thing! No doubt we shall reap what we have sown!

Who do you think the Australians or South Africans will deal with?
Well, probably not as much with the UK as they would have done since the UK abandoned South Africa, Australia and New Zealand in favour of its new friends in the EU.

I'm still none the wiser as to what the point of Chakravartey's article was. It must have been something more than just pointing out the obvious.

What do you agree with, Baggs?

Well said, Maizie. All we want to do is carry on with our lives rather than have all the upheaval of untangling 40 years of trying to integrate with other EU countries as far as trade, law and workers rights are concerned.
I notice that the talks have been put back another day because we have a bank holiday next Monday, and of course the Brits can't give up a day's holiday.

dbDB77
Are any gransnetters
That was said tongue in cheek, wasn't it?

I'd have said that there COULD be one or two, even three or four dbDB77!!!!! Just a hunch you understand!!

A poll a few weeks ago (don't know how reliable these things are) said that 19% of Remainers want the economy to fail so they can be proved right - wonder if Sir Vince is one of those? Are any Gransnetters?
The Remainers I know, though sorry we're leaving, want the country to prosper post-Brexit.

So what has the fact that Remain voters are a diverse lot got to do with anything?
Is Chakravarty arguing that Cable cannot succeed in reversing Brexit because Remainers are diverse? It really seems to be a pointless argument. Remainers want to stay in the EU. Full stop. No dispute about How to stay or what degree of Staying. Or even what sort of Stayingness we want..
Whereas the diversity of Leavers has a direct bearing on the political approach to Leaving. What group is the most important one to satisfy? The anti-immigration one? The 'get back control' one? The 'do away with all the EU red tape' one? The Hard Brexit one or the 'we want all the trade advantages without actually being in the EU' one? Etc etc.

As far as I can see, if Brexit were to be abolished today all the Remainers would heave a big sigh of relief and carry on with their lives. Whereas, whatever sort of Brexit we get, there will always be dissatisfied Leavers because it won't be just what they wanted/expected.

"Someone in politics is going to have to realise that we just can’t leave the EU: it’s simply not technically and economically possible for the UK to replicate its systems, let alone in any way that gives us anything but a massive diseconomy of scale. And someone will then have to say this. The sooner that happens the better. But it needs to happen. Then, maybe, the real negotiations on how we get out of this mess begin."

That someone may as well be Vince.

90% of global growth will be outside Europe?
So 66 million UK citizens will be after the same contracts as 600 million EU citizens.
Who do you think the Australians or South Africans will deal with?

A synopsis, to respect the paywall.

Remainers - especially thoughtful Remainers such as Sir Vince - should have worked out by now that just as the Remain vote consisted of a disparate group of people with diverse motivations, so did the Leave camp.

It isn't credible to claim that all of the over 17million Brexit voters were old (although when did it become acceptable to dismiss voters' views because of their age?), inward-looking imperialists.

As the discerning Emma Barnett - formerly of this parish - pointed out during her Cable interview, 46 per cent of 25-49 year olds who voted in the referendum backed Leave.

So even the generational gap has been overplayed.

By the European Commission's own admission, 90 per cent of global economic growth in the next decade is expected to be generated outside Europe.
We have become far too adept at creating straw men to deflect debate when we fear ourselves to be on the losing side

Baggs
I couldn't read it all but I could tell which way it was going.
It puts the lie to Liberalism, doesn't it?

Sadly, Baggs one has to get through the DT's paywall to read your link.

I wondered why no-one was commenting...