So what do we want?

I want all of these things and don't understand those that do not. We all will need the NHS at some time in our lives and we all have young people in our lives. An educated workforce is essential. Police on our streets is essential. Looking after those less fortunate than ourselves is the moral thing to do.

Welshwife. My "facts" are that where I live it is cool most of the year round. I live on the North East coast, literally right across the road from the North Sea. It is a very beautiful coastline but it's almost always cold, wet and/or windy. So with every due respect please don't tell me that my facts are wrong.

I have never said the Europeans are not polite. I don't know any French or German people personally (as friends) although we do business with a few French and German companies and no matter what anyone tries to say... We are very different. The French are far more laid back than we are and do things (business) when they are good and ready with no sense or urgency whatsoever.
The Germans are super efficient and never do business on price as they believe their product is far suprior than anything we could ever make anyway. Often they are right. But their superior attitude can be sometimes annoying.
I have no wish to argue with you though and I am very happy that you feel your life is better living where you do.

I have neither the finance, the freedom (or indeed the desire) to live on the continent.

Apologies for any errors but this stupid iPad is jumping all over the place. grrrrrrr

Daphnedill hospices are run by charities ...or they are in Scotland

What do we want ...INDEPENDENCE ,when do we want it NOW ....for those who think we're Better together....think ...why would we be better togetherin a system where over 10 thats TEN times the number of MP's are ENglish and have NO interest in Scotland or its affairs...we need to be in control of our OWN country ..to have peole in charge who work for US ......simple REALLY.Now imagine you have a small business and you have to give everything you make to your next door neighbour and THEY decide that you get 30% of your takings back and the rest goes to fund THEIR projects ...would YOU be happy with that ? Well an awful lot of us aren't either ...so it may take a wee bit more time but it will happen ....SAOR ALBA .

Before making up your mind maybe you should try living somewhere on the continent for a few months and try it out - you may well be pleasantly surprised
Just abandon your business gillybob and take a gap year

It is more common for people to rent homes in Europe than in UK - but prior to WW2 most people rented in UK. You do not have your facts right at all Gilly. It is warmer in Europe in the summer but it is colder during the winter where we live - and can be a lot wetter too. Life is different and for us in many ways better. Some things can be annoying - mainly beaurocratic you and the amount of paperwork needed for anything official but you soon get used to it all and the pace of life. People are well mannered and friendly - naturally that also has something to do with reacting to how we behave. Before making up your mind maybe you should try living somewhere on the continent for a few months and try it out - you may well be pleasantly surprised.

I dunno GGm7 where on earth do you get yours from?

Dover ???? Where's that?

Mmm! Vesta Chow Mein! My mother worked for the company which produced them and bought dozens of packets from the factory shop. I was brought up on them - I'm surprised I survived.

It has been said it is far more common to rent than buy houses in France

Where do you get these ideas from gillybob?

I think the main reason the British choose to live in France/ Spain etc. is because of the climate.

No Jalima I didn't pick on them because they're emotive. It's a fact that more is spent on healthcare during the last couple of years of life than at any other time. Saving premature babies is also extremely expensive, especially as a higher percentage than average have continuing needs.

As a first world country, we can afford to look after our elderly and children who wouldn't survive in a harsher environment. I'm not advocating that we shouldn't spend the money, but we need to accept the costs.

PS. I've spent the last few weeks visiting my mother in a hospice and I can see for myself how much is being spent. I wouldn't have it any other way, but we need to ask ourselves some serious questions.

Oh dear Gilly you don't really think civilisation stops at Dover surely

Much of it is not that different Gilly - if it were there would not be so many Europeans choosing to live in each other's country.

PS We're can still look at other countries, and learn, even though they are different from us.

too to

Something to aspire too then....perhaps in the same way we managed to turn around our dire and boring food choices from 50 years ago. I remember when Vesta Chow Mein with crispy noodles was considered the height of sophistication ???

Wow this has got surpringly personal. My opinion is that the media have little integrity and balance, even BBC, and that Brexit showed up the politics of lying about your opponent. Labour's manifesto was costed, others weren't. That manifesto included so many of the things that so many people here say they want. All this stuff about cutting back waste has been around for 30yrs+. What worries me is the waste of training people and then making their professional lives so difficult that they leave; nowadays such people are being charged stupid amounts to train and then leave. We are running out of nurses, doctors, teachers, police, prison officers, firemen, social workers. Crazy.

The French are a law unto themselves. They preach the EU laws and yet break them regularly. They are regularly on strike, they hold other parts of Europe to ransom with their air strikes, tunnel strikes etc. so not a very fair comparison. Their economy is rubbish. A very poor example.

But they are so different to us Anya. Their climate different, the food they eat different, their lifestyles different, family dynamics different, working patterns different etc.

"Best practice" is an established management strategy. I agree with Anya. Look at the countries which do better than we do and see what we can learn.

E,g French excellent health care, Finland has one of the best education systems in the world....etc....

Lookimg at countries which have better health care, education, perhaps?