Crazy benefits system need an overhaul

People should be treated equally. There should be means testing like other benefits. If you can afford to meet your needs why ask the less well off who can't afford housing cars etc subsidise you? Im not a Tory supporter but I ageee with the reality described by George Osborne as 'debt fuelled largesse'. Also loads of old people and suck people can't walk 29 metres and are housebound. They don't get this deal. Buses are wheelchair accessible and there's dial a ride and taxis.

I paid tax and national insurance for 35 years before I became too ill to work. I don't see my benefits as charity from the taxpayer. I see them as an insurance payment because I paid into the scheme and have been unfortunate enough to need to use it. That's the point of insurance. Some will pay into it but never need it. Others will have to draw on the benefits they have contributed to.

There will be some who will never be able to financially contribute. The fact that we care for them in the same way as someone who as been able to contribute is a sign of our humanity. Again it is not a charitable act. They are members of our society regardless of how much or how little they contribute to the economic system. Every person contributes in some way to a society whether it is at a family, regional or national level.

Ah yes, Grannimimi, let's divide disabled people into deserving and undeserving, why not? And FYI, not every disabled person uses a wheelchair and not everyone has public transport.

This thread is testing my normal tendency to give people the benefit of the doubt. I'm beginning to think some posters are being deliberately obtuse, in refusing to acknowledge the facts as given on here several times.

Yes there are sick people who can't walk 20/30m and many of them are entitled to the mobility element.
My DD (40) can't walk the ?150m uphill to the bus stop. She can't sit on a bus for 1.5 hours each way for hospital appointments.
Her £58 mobility allowance doesn't cover the cost of a taxi so she is not independent and has to rely on her partner or family/friends to get her around (that's on the few days a month that she's for to get out).
Feel free to impose means testing on her - it will achieve nothing.

Fit to get out not for to get out!

sweetcakes she has been bedridden for the past three weeks so the badge isn't a priority just now ,she has a very nice young mman from Citizens advice who helps her through the mire of the beaurocracy involved and he told her that she needs at least a minimum award from DWP before she can get a blue badge .The result of her latest appeal is due this week so we live in hope'Its hellish watching her suffer and she feels so guilty that she cant do things with her girls because she cant walk any distance.Her husband works away 10 or more days a fortnight and changing job isn't an option for him.So the parenting all falls on her ....I dont drive so I'm no bl--dy use either .

Excellent post, vampirequeen. Some people do tend to forget that we are all part of the same society. We should look after those who have little.

My son cannot travel on public transport grannimimi. He always loved buses actually - but they are now not accessible to him. I wish they were.

Anyone that vicious towards/jealous of those disabled enough to qualify for mobility at a rate than allows them access to the motability scheme needs to take a good look at themselves.

I don't mind people being treated equally provided they are paid equally and have equal rights to a good education, equal housing, equal healthcare.
Sounds good to me.

There's only one taxi accessible to him in our City btw - and that is contracted for school transport twice a day.

I know people are often ignorant about how severe and restrictive a disability can be but fgs just think a little.

The blue badge rules have changed with PIP - they're a total nightmare now. Our council has them all centralised via govt. We are stuck in the hell of trying to sort that out as well. The only advice we got from our council was to 'lie on the application'. WTF? A) No and B) you can't because of the way the online form works!!!

DH would be eligible for a car, but it would mean handing over all his DLA to pay for it and I would only be able to use it to drive him about - so no transport for me most of the time. As it would only be leased it would have to be handed back when he dies and I would have to find the money for a new car

Lots of people who are elderly don't get disability benefits because their conditions are commensurate with somebody that age. Younger people who have disabilities get help to give them some equality. That anybody should deny them that when they are struggling with difficulties, visible or invisible, beggars belief. My sisters and I all have the same congenital condition so we claim DLA (now known as PIP) with the higher component for our disabilities. We have all worked, paid our taxes until we were no longer able to. One of my sisters earned a small fortune and paid mega taxes. She didn't claim anything until she was no longer able to work full time but still continued to do what she could and paid her taxes. When I gave up work, my husband supported me and paid his tax at the higher rate. My other sisters husband, despite having Crohns and crippling Ankylosing spondylitis supports her and pays taxes. He could claim PIP but doesn't. All of us put in quite significantly before being forced to claim. Our condition sometimes has us crippled with pain, unable to walk, we enjoy dislocating/subluxing joints, autonomic disfuntions, digestive problems and chronic fatigue. Having our cars allows us to have a little bit of a life, even if it means just being driven out for a change of scenery.
The CHARITY which runs Motability is effectively sponsored by the Motor Industry. Allowing people to have their cars at a discount is giving them a chance to have their cars on the road which others will see and may encourage them to buy one; this free advertising for the car industry helps boost sales and creates jobs so more people can pay taxes. Disabled people do not have to pay VAT on cars so that is 20% off the price immediately so a that £47000 is actually only worth 80% of that amount. The car must be kept in a reasonable condition, used only for the PIP holder's needs and at the end of the 3 year lease it is sold to recoup money at the optimum time in terms of residual value. If you cease to be eligible for PIP, the car must be returned immediately. The only Government involvement is for the mobility component of the the PIP to be paid direct to Motability and for them to allow Motability to effectively claim a security over future payments.
The most expensive cars are not on the scheme, £3000 is the highest deposit Motability allow for a car (you can pay extra for add ons but that is directly to the manufacturer) and often it is cheaper for Motability to provide a better make of car than a cheap one because the residual values are more profitable to them. Oh, and parking tickets are strictly payable by the leaseholder and you are expected to pay them.

Bearing in mind that 8000 disabled people have had their modified transport taken away from them (thus stopping them to get to work or to hospital appts). I think it's pretty unlikely that they get this car given to them as part of their benefits. Mind they have been told to take taxis instead at twice or 3x the expense of the car, the whole system is pretty crazy

Public assistance whether it's in the UK, the US or in any other civilized society is often far from perfect.

Having said that, most programs won't even get a start unless they have a dedicated budget that must be approved. Giving handicapped people a vehicle so they can get around is a worthy cause and the lease program is cost effective.

It also appears that the beneficiaries are subsidizing the vehicle by putting up some of the money up front. Handicapped people are not necessarily poor, but most are probably not affluent enough to purchase a car outright and to bear the cost of having it retrofitted. Your government is utilizing economies of scale and a lease program as a way to save money.

Criticism if any, should be directed at those other programs that seem to be falling short, not the ones that are working.

Hopehope I don't understand why you told Gardenman to "get off his high horse". I didn't read his post as having a go at disabled people. My understnding was that he is angry at what he feels is the Conservatives' continuing agenda of austerity/privatisation which is seriously damaging the lives of many people who need help.

If I have interpreted his post correctly, I agree with him.

I am so angry at this thread. I am a wheelchair user who has a Ford S Max mootability car. The reasons I have this particular car is because it's the only model that my electric wheelchair can be fitted into the boot. I also had to have an electric hoist fitted as the chair is far too heavy to lift.
Anyone who says they got a £47,000 car on notability is either lying or, they paid the whopping excess payment on it. You can only get a car to the value of around £26,000. If you want anything above that amount you must make up the extra cost yourself. Only necessary adaptations are not chargeable.

I'm going to REALLY upset some now. But hey ho, in for a penny, in for a pound. I have also been given my powered wheelchair "free" by the wheelchair service. I discovered after being assessed and accepted on the scheme that its monetary value is £6000. If anyone wishes to be outraged or offended, please feel free. I cannot help the medical problems I have. Prior to getting all this help I sat in my flat housebound for nearly 3yrs, not even realising I was entitled to it. It was only because my GP came to visit me and saw how awful my life was, and the depression it had caused me, that she phoned social services to come help me. My husband is a nurse but comes from New Zealand so isn't up to speed on benefits in this country, so he was unaware of the help we could get.

Do you realise how much it means to someone in my position just to be able to go to a supermarket? Do you realise how much it means to be able to go to the park with my grandchildren and watch them play? I would give back every penny of help I have received just to be able to walk. I suggest some people here think about that.

I am a wheelchair user, I find walking almost impossible and certainly can't do it without extreme pain. I can't get on a bus because so many mothers with pushchairs feel entitled to use the space that was originally intended for us wheelchair users. Using any public transport is really difficult as like other disabled people, I have to make arrangements in advance for spaces on trains and ramps to be put out. The last train I used someone sat in my carers space and wouldn't move. If I phone for a taxi I have to ensure that it will take my wheelchair. So having the Motobity scheme is invaluable to me, the whole of my mobility allowance goes on this along with a lump sum deposit that I save up and money for any alterations like a hoist. We have to pay to take that out at the end. No refunds.
Ignorance of the way the scheme works brings out a lot of displayed jealousy and hostility from people which makes me extremely cross, it's not the benefit system or the government who decide what cars are available, that's down to the car companies themselves. They decide if they'll let us use their cars and how much they want in advance. We, the disabled, choose what fits our needs. Just because I am in a wheelchair does not mean I don't have a life. I need a car my wheelchair will fit in, there's no point me having a Ka if it won't take my chair! Any damages caused to the car in the 3-4years we lease it have to be paid for. And Yes, we do get to park in special spaces, provided they are not full of taxis or people borrowing their gran's blue badge so they can park for free. I still have to think about my journey in advance, 'is there a step to the shop I want? will someone be parked across the sloped pavement? Will someone block the boot on my car? Will the automatic doors be working in * today? Will the aisles be blocked with stock in *? Can I access the coffee shop? Is the lift working'
If it was possible to change places with some people believe me I would be more than happy to let them 'walk a mile in my shoes'.

I read the entire thread, twice, to digest. Please tell me if I am incorrect. Oh right, you will.

I think DLA and PIP are not means tested and whether the person is working is not important to the scheme either. I don't think that matters, everyone deserves health care and related services.

The disabled person receives a certain set sum, weekly, to do with as they wish. One third of the DLA PIP people enter the 3 yr car scheme, using their DLA Motability funds to a car.

Free school lunches will still be available for people who need the help and others may buy school lunches for a fee or take a packed lunch from home.

Parents who can afford it will be paying for their children's lunches.

Affect to taxes, after the election. I copied from durhamjen Sun 21-May-17 19:06:49 (because I could not do the maths) "If the Tories get back in they will change the tax thresholds, so that the change from 20-40% is at £50,000, not the present £45,000. This means that those who earn over £50,000 will get a rebate of 20% on the £5000, which is an extra £1000. At the moment they pay 40% of that £5000 between £45,000 and £50,000, which is £2000."

Not clear to me, the winter heating allowance will continue without means testing, maybe?

To dementia tax, I do not know, not clear at all to me.

The only thing to add is that DLA/PIP are paid at different rates dependent on the level of disability. You can only access the Motability scheme if you are in receipt of higher rate mobility DLA/enhanced rate mobility PIP. So the scheme is reserved for the 'most' disabled.

Having read, compared and contrasted OP's "rant" with, for instance the sad reality of the situation from nanaandgrampy and SallyDapp among others I feel OP should be highly embarrassed, ashamed even , of getting the wrong end of the stick and then beating people about the head with it.
These scare stories make for good headlines in the gutter press or certain TV channels, but are extremely distressing to those in genuine need. It reflects badly on GN to be "headlined" in their daily email and projects an image of clucking, tutting, prejudiced and disapproving old biddies.
Not in my name Gransnet.
It must be hard enough to see the threat of these "benefits" (I use the term advisedly as they are hardly more than a helping hand) being whittled away without also being made to feel that they do not deserve our consideration and a bit of human kindness

Well said Maw.

Well said MawBroon.

Being headlined in the GN daily email could be a good thing, so long as people read the actual thread and see the reality, and don't just agree with the original poster automatically.

Elegran my post to gardenman was regarding him harping on about the tax payer as thougj no disabled people have ever paid tax. I agree with Vamp her post makes alot of sense