Not an election please

You don't have to answer roses ignoring is probably better!!

Rigby all politicians are at the very least "economical" with the truth. And many of them change their minds, whether as a result of how things pan out, taking on board reasoned advice, simple political necessity - or even following a chance to think things though after a nice walk in the country! As to whether a bigger majority will help her Brexit negotiations, well it certainly won't make things harder for her!

Petra I know at least one other person who has been lifelong Labour supporter and who will now vote Tory, specifically in the hope that they are truly hammered and that a new, moderate, leader is elected as a result. Another form of tactical voting I guess.

In a proper democracy no party should be considered to have a mandate unless they get 50 per cent of the votes.

If no party gets 50 per cent parties must discuss co-operation and agree on policies that are supported by at least 50 per cent of the voters.

Fine in theory Varian, and sometimes that works. But coalition govts. can lead to completely ineffective govt. as in Italy, or tiny "one issue" parties holding governments to ransom. I prefer what we have, for all it's shortcomings.

...and very succesful ones as in Germany!

The 2010 -2015 LibDem/Tory coalition government was infinitely better than what we've got now.

Petra I'm afraid I cannot find the post where I said that - I have been trough the whole thread a couple of times as you sound so cross and deserve a reply. Let me know which post it was and I will have a look back at it.

Fitzy I don't think her majority will make any difference at all in the UK's relationship with the EU. Verhofstadt said as much today. The problems she faces are from her own back benchers. She has the same problems that Corbyn does,but the Conservatives have always been better at hiding their dirty washing.

I am becoming increasingly convinced that the reasons for calling the election now are:

1 She doesn't want to/can't carry through on the 2015 Conservative manifesto pledges, especially with the commitment to the triple lock on pensions and not raising taxes;

2 A 2020 election would be after the Brexit deal, which is guaranteed to be a disappointment to many.

DD. Varian I agree with you both, and both your examples were in my mind when I posted, But I still think that PR is more likely to fail than succeed.

Fair enough Fitzy. I'm not 100% convinced that it's the only solution, but I've pondered about it for years (as have countless philosophers and politicians, etc). I just think it's the best alternative, based on evidence.

It's highly unlikely to happen in the UK anyway. I'm a pragmatist so, rather than spending hours thinking about highly unlikely and idealistic scenarios, I prefer to think about realisable solutions to the problems we face in real time.

DD you could well be right, but there are some that think a bigger majority will help her push back on her more difficult backbenchers

My son, who is studying politics at uni, has told me that some theorist has come up with the idea that everybody should be divided into groups of 100 and choose a delegate. These delegates should then be part of a body of a 100 (ie representing 10,000 people). In turn, they should then be delegates to a body representing a million people etc etc.

The logistical nightmares and potential for vote rigging this would create are just mind-boggling.

From a personal viewpoint, I don't want her to push back on her backbenchers. I actually have some time for some Conservative backbenchers. I don't want all Conservative backbenchers to be compliant Conservative party clones.

IMHO that's undermining democracy.

I expect TM has read her history books, so knows that Thatcher wasn't brought down by the miners' strike or poll tax rioters, but her own backbenchers.

The only Tory backbenchrr I've got any time foe is good old Ken Clark. All the rest of the Tory remainers just caved in -even the likes of Anna Soubry. They let us all down, just like Corbyn.

I agree with you about Ken Clarke.I suspect he's got to the age when he couldn't give a sh*t. I'll have a think and maybe come up with some others . I have a bit of respect for Heseltine, although he's no longer an MP.

Fitzy54: I hope these lifelong Labour voters who decide to vote Tory to give Corbyn the proverbial 'bloody nose' are happy with what a whopping Tory majority will deliver for us. I won't be.

Ken Clarke I believe is hanging in for this one to make sure there is one Tory voice against Brexit. Good for him. Always liked him.

I won't be happy either Devorgilla. IMHO they're deluded.

Nor me

GracesGranMK2
Page 28, 22nd April 11.22.49
1st paragraph 2/3 lines down.

Surely lifelong labour supporters who decide to vote Tory will do so because they have been driven away by Corbyn and fear the far left take over of a party they have been loyal to for possibly many years.

I don't think you get it ab, but I'm off to bed. I'll try to explain again in the morning.

I'm really surprised that a lifelong political activist doesn't understand politics. I really think you should look beyond Corbyn and try to understand the bigger picture.

So, this is the full context in which I used it.

Annie, I really don't understand why you keep telling everyone on here about your opinion of Corbyn. I doubt there is anyone who doesn't understand what you feel and it is obviously hard for you but others do not feel that way or, perhaps, even care.

I really can't see the problem. There will be some - we see many on here - who don't feel the way Annie does and we can see every day on TV people who do not care about politics at all let alone Corbyn.

I am always pleased to hear about yours or anyone else's family feelings but I think it is a huge leap to find my comment - which is factual when taken in context - applies to someone who is not on this forum and "feels very strongly". It patently wasn't anything to do with you or your family.