Should parents take their children on holiday in term time?

Our school day was longer years ago; we had to be in school at 8.35 for assembly at 8.45, lessons started at 9.00 and we finished at 16.00 with 2 short and 1 longer break. A local school starts at 8.35, lessons begin at 8.45 and they finish at 14.50 with 1 short and 1 longer break.
Another local school seems to take registration after the first period gillybob so they don't know if a child is late.

Apologies Ggm2 I forgot teachers have no holidays, work 25 hours a day, 8 days a week for no wages. Thank you for reminding me.

By non-academic I meant sport and the classes with an ever growing list of initials and anything outside the core curriculum. They will need specialists and possibly specialist teachers but they do not need to be teachers who need the time to do the preparation and marking of that core. The one thing I am sure of is we cannot continue to keep cutting the money going to schools and expect a good, all round education.

Anyway, it seems you are happy with your current lot - which is great. I am sure the teachers that come after you will thank you for that.

Sorry to be stupid, gillybob, but is there nobody at home with these children at breakfast time? I don't mean to pick on you, it's just the most recent post about children's breakfast making me wonder what happens in the morning in others' homes.

Elegran, it was just a starting point. Because of the, now two, floating weeks (to accommodate for the Bank Holidays), of course everyone would not need to take their holidays in the two weeks shut down.

I did specifically say the teachers would not supervise the non-academic classes. I did not say they should fill in endless forms - that is your view.

I don't care any more. Teachers can just carry on as they are. I was trying to start a conversation to help with the issues they have - it's certainly not worth trying with the ex teachers on here is it?

It's certainly easy to criticise any suggestion but I don't see anyone else even trying and things will have to change over time - they always do.

I wish my DGC's school had a breakfast club or an "initiative" to cope with children who's parents are working Elegran.

Yes I can appreciate what you are saying penstemmon I tend to go to most of the meetings,parents evenings, concerts etc. as DS and DDiL almost always working or on the wrong shift.

Your points one by one, gg2

*1. Holiday time both for students and staff to be reduced to six weeks. There should be no idea that teachers are expected to work in schools/colleges during this time.
2. There would be the equivalent of industry shut-downs for: two weeks at Christmas, one week at Easter, two weeks in the Summer.
3. One week could be taken at any time other than those exempted by the head teacher - these being different for different years where necessary.*

That would mean that every family with a schoolchild would want to take their summer holiday at the same time during those two weeks. As Gilly replied, the pressure on travel and accommodation would be enormous, like the traffic jams heading for the seaside on a sunny bank holiday and hotel prices (if you could find a room) would rise astronomically, so even more families would be trying to go during term time.

How convenient were industry shutdowns anyway?

*The day should be the equivalent to a working day with children arriving and taking part in non-academic activity. This would not include the academic staff who would have this time for preparation/marking.

The middle of the day would be teaching time. In secondary schools the subject/stage of learning could be introduced in lectures to the whole year and then smaller sets used to enable all levels of learning.

The last part of the day would not be academic and not include academic teachers in supervision or teaching but would be additional time for preparation/marking/training.*

There are already breakfast clubs, after-school clubs, and various initiatives to cope with children whose parents are work hours don't coincide with school ones. They all need one important element - adult supervision. Who will supervise? Teachers? Not if they are using the time for preparation and filling in endless forms. That means extra staff. Staff means training and money, and keeping a whiole school-full of (possibly unwilling) pupils occupied in non-academic activities takes a lot of space and equipment.

Well, I'm very sorry,but I can't get my head round how it would work in practice.

Daphne I did explain that in my original post. I don't think it was that hard to understand.

Where would you fit in the extra hours during the week?

I was trying to suggest that the out of hours work should be done in the week and yes, I had intended the Bank Holidays to be additional to the six weeks.

Perhaps teachers don't want to be helped!

Exactly daphnedill, it's the same in our family. The graduate in her 30's who earns the least amongst her friendship/family group is a teacher. She leaves home at 7am for a 30 minute drive, is sometimes home by 5 but once a week it's 7. She works in the evening and most of Sunday. A doodle isn't it.

My daughter works for a private company. She's not a senior member of staff and has only been there a few months.

She has 26 days of annual leave every year, increasing to a maximum of 30 days after four years’ service PLUS bank holidays. You can even buy additional holidays or sell some of your holiday entitlement back.

She earns almost as much as a teacher after four years of service...and no work to do in the evenings, at weekends or on holiday!

This could never work GGM2

Holiday time both for students and staff to be reduced to six weeks can you see any teachers agreeing to this? 13 weeks reduced to 7. I don't think so.

Of course Gillybob you have been teaching for years and KNOW that that teachers take all 13 weeks as holidays. It's not my experience but you will obviously know better. Add to that the fact that they have one of the longest working week - but DM readers and the like wouldn't recognise that I know - they might just prefer something near to the working pattern others enjoy.

We are all experts on education - or are we?

When I mentioned that I was a former governor of a comprehensive school Anya responded "aren't we all ?"

Now I realise that this was probably intended as a sarky put-down, but in a sense I think she has hit the nail on the head.

We all know about schools. We have all been pupils and almost all of us have been parents and grandparents of pupils. Quite a lot of GNetters are or have been teachers. So we are all experts in education.

Perhaps if I told you I had been a school governor, a head teacher, an Ofsted inspector, a professor of education, or even the Education Minister in the government, you might think I knew more than the average person about education? (actually I haven't been all of these things)

I suspect it wouldn't matter one whit. We are all experts on education and we can all recount anecdotes about things that were right or wrong when we went to school, or our children and grandchildren went to school.

As our not-much-late-lamented former education minister Michael Gove has told us "the British people have had too much of experts"

We all know best.

Why isn't the local authority organising transport gillybob?

gillybob That is a huge benefit for teachers and I totally appreciated it though my kids never quite saw it that way when I could never go to see them in their assemblies/ nativities etc. when they were little. I always sent a grandparent sub. or uncle but it was not quite the same!

I would also point out, that it is lovely {and lucky} to have 13 non-school weeks but teachers do work during school closures too! Of course it is easier to organise than in other jobs but believe me teachers are not spending 13 weeks with their feet up! My DD is in school today and tomorrow and I know works several evenings each week, even in the holidays, keeping records and assessments up to date.

A free school in Norwich has six terms separated by two week breaks except for August when it's four weeks. No homework. The school day is longer 8.00(?) to 6.00. And positively no time whatsoever off outside school holidays! But then, because they don't match the state schools that works for everyone.

My own 3 DC - 6 parents in full time work - only go away on average every three years apart from the eldest staying with us sometimes. They can't afford term time, let alone school holidays and generally camp. DD2 doesn't do camping so they stick to the UK in winter! DGD2 has never had a hot sunny holiday! So no, we don't consider it a 'right' to have a holiday, but shouldn't it be an opportunity?

Teachers at least get to spend their 13 weeks holiday with their children HurdyGurdy whether they holiday at home or away. Many parents have holidays dictated to them by their employers and they do not necessarily fit in with the school holidays. Also I think someone else mentioned up thread that most parents want their holidays with their children and those employers who don't operate a "shut down" have to limit how many people they can have away at one time.

Actually, HG I do know of teacher who did just that. Her DH had the opportunity of a business trip (Moscow I think) and the whole family went. The supply teacher was excellent!

And when did it become a "right" for families to have a holiday?

I think generally speaking, no. Much depends of course, on the age and stage of education of the child.

Trying to make it sound beneficial to the child is disingenuous in my opinion, because let's face it, the reason parents take children out of school for holidays is because the parents want a holiday and don't want to pay premium prices for it. Nothing to do with "oh the child learned so much about culture". Bullshine!!

I think if a parent takes a child out of school during term time, then it should be up to that parent to make sure the child is caught up with whatever work they have missed during the week/fortnight/however long it is, and not the class teacher, as that is detrimental to the whole class.

And the other thing is - I just hope these parents don't mind when the teacher, who happens to also be a parent, turns around and says "well, you know - we like to have holidays too, and we don't really want to pay premium prices either, so I am going to shuffle off on a nice holiday mid term, and your kids will just make to make do with whatever teacher they can find to fill my spot, and I'll catch up with the work when I'm back". Now I know teachers wouldn't/don't have that option, but the principle is there. Teachers, I am sure, would love the option to pay the lower out-of-high-season prices for holidays.

That is a total of 11 weeks in fact, compared to 13 weeks in the UK.

What about having four terms as they do in Australia? No half term breaks, but two weeks every three months and a long holiday over the Christmas break (summer in this country, obviously).
Would that work better?

5 weeks at Christmas, 2 weeks in autumn, 2 weeks in winter, and 2 weeks in spring
With the 5 weeks in summer in the UK?

Exactly. Parents should not expect to take their children away on holiday. Unless they can afford to home school (and the loss of one earner) or private education. They have no right to want to go abroad or to a holiday resort. Getting above their station. Whatever next!

I just think the system was working fine where the HT had the authority to advise parents according to what was happening in school, the child's attendance, where the holiday was to and how it would effect him/her. We used to take our lot camping in France. They learnt to read maps, speak a bit of French and see the reason for learning it, and a lot about geography, history and wildlife. A trip to Florida may be a once in a lifetime trip to a theme park but there's the Epcot Centre and loads of other stuff too.

I would be furious with the attendance officer too. Doesn't s/he have a superior to complain to? What are the 'consequences'? Surely it proves the need to change to a closer school when the opportunity arises?