Attempted murder in Croydon

Cunco does not seem to me to be excusing anything at all, explaining is not the same as excusing.Drink is always a factor but there will be others, which no doubt will come to light in due course.

I'm well aware of the difference between excusing and explaining and I stand by what I wrote.

It has been reported that the young Kurd was attacked because he said that he was an asylum seeker.

Possibly drink was a factor, but so was hysterical national rhetoric which reinforced immigration as a threat and demonised asylum seekers.

The cases will now be sub judice, so maybe the trials will present new evidence.

It has all the hallmarks of a racist attack. If he had been a white guy from Croydon do you think they would have stopped to ask "Where are u from" ? He looked foreign
... "we" don't like foreigners especially asylum seekers.They take our jobs, mess up our NHS, are different etc etc...so let's have him.
That is a racist attack!

Of course it was a racist attack

But do you think these gormless gang members have any clue and the Brexit arguement beyond 'get rid of asylum seekers'? And many of them were black!!

..the attackers I mean.

Anya They will probably be headline readers who suck up hate headlines. They fuel their predisposition to be fearful of/hate people not like them. They may or may not be gormless..I suspect the ringleaders will be quite bright... but they will be followed by some less able/poorly educated. That tends to be how gangs work. They are not interested in Brexit beyond the fact they believe it supports their extreme nationalism.

I doubt these read anything Pen TBH and just get their ideas from what they hear around them. Agree completely with your last sentence.

I'm not sure that being black makes any difference. It just means that various groups are integrated and maybe have a common hatred of newcomers or certain racial groups.

In any case, do you know how many were black? I know some attackers were under 18, so can't be identified in the press, but nearly all the pictures I've seen appear to have been of white people.

It concerns me that what Pen describes as extreme nationalism is becoming normalised. Whilst the behaviour is certainly extreme, I'm not so sure that the attitudes can still be described as extreme.

I do agree with both of you that they probably don't have a clue about the theories behind Brexit.

I don't even know that this was an organised gang. I guess the police will try to establish that and what motivated them.

PS. I know this is slightly off-topic, but yesterday I saw one of the sickest Tweets I've I've ever come across.The former EDL leader, Tommy Robinson, posted some pictures of the aftermath of the latest Stockholm attack with squashed bodies and body parts on the road. In a way, that's no worse than pictures of the dead children in Syria, but the comments he posted with the photos were quite clearly intended to be inflamatory and a "call to arms".

In what way is attacking someone on the grounds of race/colour/faith/sexual orientation not xterme?

I'm not claiming that the behaviour wasn't extreme and am sorry if that's how you read my post.

I was suggesting that ideas and values, such as demonising asylum seekers and all immigrants (especially Muslims) are becoming normalised, as evidenced by many tabloid headlines and comments on social media. To an extent, those extreme ideas are becoming the norm, although I doubt most people become thugs. The trouble is that the gormless thugs read the headlines, so their behaviour is justified in their little brains.

I loved the expression on this girl's face at today's EDL march in Birmingham. Well done, that girl!

Ah! Am with you now daphne Misunderstood.

This picture, taken in Sweden in the 1980s, is a classic. Maybe it will inspire a few of us grans!

I was reading up about the gang culture in Croydon DD to answer your question.

I would think those who took part in the attack were a gang but their reasons for the attack seem racial hatred, or immigrant hatred which ever one chooses to call it. Brexit didn't turn these thugs into racists, that the public felt free to speak out against immigrants during the campaign and after the result reinforced their belief that immigrants have no place in this country. Racism is so often learned in the home.

Thank you for the reply Anya.

I agree with you that they probably haven't a clue about politics. It does seem that there has always been a mob/gang mentality and I'm not sure what can be done.

I was querying whether the attackers were black, because I don't think most of them were. I'm also wondering whether it's relevant anyway in this case. It doesn't appear to have been one ethnic group against another, as happens sometimes.

On the face of it, it appears to have been about being against asylum seekers and I think the media should be more responsible about the environment it creates with its headlines and language it uses. Not everybody is as discerning and rational as we are.

A march in Croydon as well. This is what Katie Hopkins thought of it.

www.thecanary.co/2017/04/08/croydon-just-united-reker-ahmed-katie-hopkins-stuck-boot-anyway-video/

KH really is a twisted cow (am I allowed to write that on GN?)

I doubt whether anyone would report you.

This is the response from the EDL person in the picture I posted above. Mmmm! What a fine example of an English patriot!

I notice that even Piers Morgan retweeted that photo, daphne.

Rather late in the discussion, but I probably live closer than anyone here to where the attack took place - a few streets up the road from our house. Had no idea it had happened until the following day.

I was as disgusted as anyone to learn of it and feel for the young victim who had thought he was in a safe and welcoming country.
But until the perpetrators are charged, tried and found guilty it's pointless to speculate on their skin colour or whether they were in a gang or not. There are gangs in most major towns and cities in the UK and I'm not sure where Croydon ranks in the gang league, but we've lived in a suburb of Croydon since 1983 and have never felt unsafe.
The biggest worry is the rise in hate crime and racist crime in the UK and what can be done to stop it. In the meantime I hope there is real justice for the young man in hospital. Presumably that would have to be a prison sentence, where the perpetrators might well learn to do it 'better' next time...

Totally agree with daphnedill's views about media (ir)responsibility. Not to mention the Twisted Cow.

These thugs are already being protected by the police. No publicity, no tv cameras at the homes of those arrested but no problem with the police tipping off the BBC. to film them searching the home of a pop singer .

If there were cameras outside their houses, they would get off on a technicality of not having a fair trial.
I want a fair trial and someone to end up in prison for what happened.