Brexit all done and dusted?

Easter Mesage -FFS who does she think she is, the Pope? No sense of people coming together or uniting from what I can see ( and GN's a good illustration of that). People I know are angrier than ever as it becomes clearer and clearer what the complexities of all this will mean. And meanwhile domestically the majority of the population suffer more and more from austerity, the rich get richer and globally we stagger with the likes of DT towards Armegeddon.

Mazie I agree with you. However, there is one thing the EU has done, more than 10 years ago but the effect of which over the last 10 years has, I think, helped the Brexiteers significantly, and that is the introduction of the Euro. The idea was fine but, in order to get support, the Germans and French pushed for very loose economic control over membership and in particular borrowing. In other words they allowed political objectives to override what were clear economic requirements. The result was huge disruption within the Eurozone, still being acutely felt, in particular in Greece, an effect perhaps greater than the banking crisis. The UK has been substantially protected from the effects - in particular bail out costs- as it didn't join. But I think the disruption, cost, and the serious effect on the people of Greece in particular but other countries as well, turned a lot of people against the EU. The damaging effect on UK perception has not been helped by the fact that the EU seem to have been increasingly marginalising the non-eurozone countries.

Sorry for breaking my promise to shut up especially when I have not been provoked in any way. On balance the EU has given ordinary people improved rights in both employment and consumer matters. Unfettered immigration, which seems to be the motivation for the LEAVE vote is a consequence many factors. Our language, English, is the second language for many countries. As a nation we are generally tolerant and fair compared to many others; but there is significant underlying prejudice.

Some EU regulations like those controlling fishing and wonky vegetables are ill thought out. But ill thought rules can be changed if we part of the regulatory. Britain has a small land area and can only support a finite population so immigration has to be controlled, Brussels should appreciate this.

The reasons for immigration into Europe are down to Europe being more attractive than Africa and Middle East. The Middle East has been wrecked by past Imperialism and present day religious intolerance within Islam coupled with interference from the West and Russia. The largely innocent population can no longer cope. Africa has many parallels with the Middle East.

Russia has little immigration, The US has the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans as largely effective insulation from the areas where it has caused catastrophe. So US preaching (thou do as I say diplomacy) and force are seen as the right thing to do; that won't work as it hasn't in the past.

Europe is in danger of falling apart if the interests of the individual nations are not given more understanding. Moore tolerant unity is essential if it is survive in the long run, Brexit will hasten its demise with possible conflict within Europe if lessons are not learnt. The EU has given a generally peaceful Europe with some resentment, without it World War 3 probably would have happened already, as George Orwell predicted in 1984. Such a thing is truly unthinkable.

So what can be done. I wish I knew. But without interference the Middle East will sort itself out in its own way. North Korea left alone will sooner or later come in from the cold. There will be trouble on the way but us sticking our oar in will probably make it worse.

Britain's problems are due to a legacy of complacency relying on past glories and not the fault of the EU. Japan after being very successful post war has started to follow a similar pattern. The US already has.

Whichever way Brexit or no Brexit ends to UK must sort out its own issues by not ignoring poorer parts of the country, learning from past mistakes. Tailoring education to suit the needs of the individual and society. Fix what's wrong and leave what's right well alone.

The EU can be fixed, the electoral system can be made fairer, National Pride restored. More easily with the UK part of Europe than outside. Not easy but the rot has to be stopped before we become a third world country.

No Rigby, she thinks she's the Prime Minister of The UK, someone rather more appropriate than the Pope to deliver an Easter message to the people of the UK. I agree that I don't get any great sense of consensus on Brexit yet, but it's much less a topic of conversation among people I know than it was. In any event she is obviously trying to promote unity, which isn't too terrible an objective however unlikely you might think her chances of success.
And Gnet political threads are certainly not a good yardstick on which to base general opinion!

So Brexiters was this what you hoped would happen?

The UK have lost what is called the " Crown Jewels"

Both the Banking and Medicine agencies are being taken from us. They both employ about 1000 people and provide a hub for numerous businesses in the U.K.

And oh how surprising we failed to receive backing from a single EU country in our request to start trade talks prior to our leaving the EU. Did none of our oh so clever ministers read the small print???!!

Apparently the attitude of our Government has turned the sympathy that was felt by Europe to one of exasperation because of the rather childish behaviour by May and cohorts where they aggresively talked of becoming a low tax, low regulation economy.

Spains veto over Gibraltar remains on the table despite the UKs anger.

So pleased that the Brexiters assurances that we have more clout than the EU and that they will fall into line with our requests is reaching fruition! What a load of bunkum.

Cindersdad I'll perhaps provoke you just a little! I think you might be in danger of thinking it's only you that understands all the ills of the world and if only the rest of us would just listen we might start to get somewhere.
Of course that is something that might be said of many of us on these threads.
Apart from me, of course?!

WW as you say, the rot is now truly setting in. Downhill from here I think.

As far as Easter Messages are concerned I think that Theresa May has bl**dy cheek. Who on earth does she think she is? Easter Messages belong to christian religions, without whom the festival wouldn't even exist (yes, I do know about pre-christian Spring festivals so no need to jump in with moans about christian appropriation of pagan festivals). Is it because she's a vicar's daughter that she thinks she's our spiritual leader?
The only people who should be giving Easter messages are christian leaders, such as the archbishop of Canterbury, or the Queen. Though I think the Queen is far too sensible to get caught up in such a stupid innovation. For it is an innovation for a secular leader to be handing out 'Easter messagesl.

Hell, this has made me almost as mad as brexit did.

I've not read it but according to the Mirror Monsignor Jezza seems to have delivered his own Easter message. I bet you're really, really cross now Mazie?

What a lot of hot cross buns some of you are!

Right there rose mad as hell!!! at the idiocy of it all.

I am getting tired of having to say that Leavers, like Remainers, voted the way they did for all manner of reasons. Personally, immigration was not high on my list in 1975 or 2016. Migration is a long term feature of a world of expanding population, disparity of wealth and easy communication.

I have waited for EU reform for 40 years and I see little real sign. As Ken Clarke said in Parliament, everyone wants to reform the EU but there is no consensus and even if their were, it would take many years to re-negotiate a new treaty. One problem is that the Eurozone needs to integrate further to survive which means a looser form of co-operation is unlikely in the long term.

I read Maisie's comment that the EU parliament may be more powerful than people give it credit for. Who? Surely not people who voted Leave. I was, though, interested to read what Caroline Lucas, 10 years an MEP, said in Parliament. She felt that the EU Commission had too much power relative to the EU Parliament and that lobbyists in Brussels have far too much influence.

I voted Leave as a choice between a rock and a hard place. As it happens, I do not think it is all downhill for us from here but it will be a bumpy ride. I think, though, we will muddle through. I have big concerns about the EU. It remains centralised, bureaucratic, undemocratic and inflexible, headed, in my view, to a kind of United States in Europe. It would be good if we could all have a conversation about the long term future of the EU. I suspect the views of Leave and Remain are many and varied.

I had to smile at Maisie's suggestion that 'Remoaner' was the ultimate insult. If that is the worst insult anyone has suffered, they must have lived a very sheltered life. I remember when 'Remona' was a hit record. I suspect it was before we joined the EU. We weren't, for the time, an extreme society then and I hope and believe we will not be one if the EU Parliament allows us to leave the EU.

Well said Cunco

It's my Easter message, Rose. I am reaching for my hard hat as I write .

I actually agree with pretty much all you say Conco. But I voted for the rock rather than the hard place. By "downhill" I meant that all the pain will be upfront - in the short to medium term and that's what is now starting to be felt. We might well be better off in the long term but to my mind that's much more of an uncertainty than the very real problems Brexit is likely to cause over the next 10 years or more.

fitz will see us out then. Pity my children and grandchildren who will be left with the s--t. Something they never wanted but has been forced on them by us soon to be deceased -the irony of it!!

"This tendency to go with the flow has its downsides in humans, since happy people can become all too good at adapting even to an uncomfortable status quo. They make lousy activists, lacking the restlessness that so often drives change, and a world packed full of them would be a dangerously passive place.Discontent has its uses." Gaby Hinscliff.

You turn the world upside down by voting for Brexit, then tell the rest of us to be happy with our lot.
Probably the first time you have gone against the status quo in your life, and remainers have to just accept it?
No chance.

As I said WW, I think it might recover in time for the next generation to benefit. Actually, I'll see what I can do about hanging on lng enough myself (but I'm struggling with the new 10 a day prescription!)

A Christian message about unity, coming together, shared values, ambitions, interests - yeah right - wonder where the swingeing cuts to bereavement benefits come in; the taking away of motability cars from disabled people, before appeal, causing them to sell their cars and lose their jobs ( before the benefit is then reinstated) ; the way below inflation increase offered yet again to our hard working NHS staff; the plans for the expansion of divisive grammar schools; the millions and millions wasted on free schools that never opened and academies that went bust; the loss of the 18 week target for non urgent surgery ; Southern Rail making it clear that disabled travellers will have far less options for using the rail network - all this in the news in the last week or so. As far as I am concerned, instead of vacuous hypocritical Easter messages ( from any political leader) they should just STFU and unless they are actively working to deal with the real problems in our society, they should stop treating us like idiots with their false empty promises and evoking Christian values they do not practice. They could damn well start with the Sermon on the Mount

Rigby 46

"Easter Mesage -FFS who does she think she is, the Pope? "

MaizieD Sun 16-Apr-17 08:46:49

As far as Easter Messages are concerned I think that Theresa May has bl**dy cheek. Who on earth does she think she is? Easter Messages belong to christian religions, without whom the festival wouldn't even exist (yes, I do know about pre-christian Spring festivals so no need to jump in with moans about christian appropriation of pagan festivals). Is it because she's a vicar's daughter that she thinks she's our spiritual leader?

The only people who should be giving Easter messages are christian leaders, such as the archbishop of Canterbury, or the Queen. Though I think the Queen is far too sensible to get caught up in such a stupid innovation. For it is an innovation for a secular leader to be handing out 'Easter messages"

Out of interest do you feel the same about Jeremy Corbyn and Tim Farron's Easter Messages, or is it just Theresa May you scorn ?

POGs read my post - I said any political leader. Politics and religion should be kept separate. I think it's beyond cheap to evoke 'Christian' values - whatever they are - in the name of post Brexit unity. Cheap, cheap, cheap

As Rigby says, there's a lot to scorn about May's message, expecting us to unite while dividing us.

"Reacting to the message, Alastair Campbell, who famously said when working for Tony Blair that “we don’t do God”, suggested May should tread carefully when linking her faith to the political challenges facing the country. “I think even vicars’ daughters should be a little wary of allying their politics to their faith,” he said. “She does not exactly say if God had a vote he would have voted Leave, but she gets closer to it than she should. If she really thinks she is leading a united country full of hope ... I suggest she gets out more.”

Campbell, who is now editor-at-large of the pro-EU weekly newspaper the New European, added: “I don’t think I have ever known Britain more divided. As for her talk of compassion, community, citizenship and obligations to one another, she has taken an axe to those with regard to Britain’s relations to the rest of the world, and plenty of her domestic agenda points in the opposite direction.” "

Excellent post Cunco, well said.

Blair certainly 'did God'.
As did Bush
Both used God to justify the Iraq War.