Martin McGuinness

I'm sorry you are leaving the thread Judthepud2 and appreciate, if only secondhand, some of the traumas and difficulties you lived through as I well remember we were often on red or black alert where I worked in the UK and how nervous it made us.

Judthepud2, I'll be sorry if you leave this thread. I didn't live in Belfast but I had close friends and visited regularly during the period we're discussing. It was always tense but also friendly. For what it's worth, your explanation for what happened is the one I remember.

Judthepud2 I think you and I are aware of the truth. It's best to disregard cryptic comments, Like you I lived through those times in Belfast and have no wish to relive them.

Ceesnan ? It seems from many witnesses from the press that the young soldiers, as soon as they realised their mistake, tried to turn the car and get out. They were blocked in by the crowd. However, AB seems to have insider info which calls into question all of this. What do I know?

Leaving this thread now. The memories of all this part of my life are just too unpleasant.

Ceesnan, I tellegence unit who didn't know there was a funeral tsking place or where it was taking place or the srmy had been ordered to avoid the area. I am not going to use the deaths of these two men for a disagreement, I believe what you claim is what the army claim was the truth, it was not.

I haven't read this thread through but there was a very appropriate comment in the DT this morning. It said in his obituary that he left a widow, in fact he left hundreds
annsixty that is very true indeed.
And widowers and many motherless and fatherless children.

Anniebach Derek Wood, the driver, was not "showing off" as you put it. If that was the information given to you by David Howes' best mate then I doubt he really was a mate. The truth is that Derek and David were part of an intelligence unit - Derek was getting ready to leave and was showing Cpl Howes the places where information and equipment were dropped off and collected. Given the layout of Belfast streets it is very easy to get off route and that day a lot of streets had been closed because of the funeral procession. Nobody knows how they ended up where they did, but I find it impossible not to react when I read such a dismissive remark about a mistake that led to such a tragedy.

He claimed to be religous.......really !
It was all done with a political agenda.

One of those widows Ann was the wife of a colleague of my husband's, who was blown apart in a booby trapped house. They will carry McGuiness in his coffin today. There couldn't find enough of this man, so they carried sandbags instead.

Absolutely annsixty.

I don't do religion at all but I agree with cherrytree59. MMc claimed to be religious so lets hope he is judged appropriately.

It was a terrible business grannypiper, as was the murder of Captain Niarak (spelling) and so many other atrocities committed by terrorist organisations. Unfortunately the army seem to be the only people that appear to be culpable both then and right up to the present day. Others were granted an amnesty for their years of cruelty, but not the soldiers who ironically were sent in the first place to protect Catholics from their neighbours. They unfortunately continue to be pursued. Seems very unfair!

I haven't read this thread through but there was a very appropriate comment in the DT this morning. It said in his obituary that he left a widow, in fact he left hundreds.

I will never forget what happened to those Servicemen in N.I. The video shown by the media was bad enough but i was shown the unedited video and it proves what animals the ira were and still are.I was also in N.I when they shot at a school bus. Now try and justify that and tell me Mcguinness and Adams are decent. They and there idiotic followers are scum

Well as McGuinness held religious beliefs he has gone to meet his Maker
His God will have the final say.
If it turns out that there is no higher being then he is just dust and his efforts on behalf religion and God were futile at the very least

Then Judthepud, you know more about it than the best mate of the one who was being driven and who was in the same quarters as the driver

www.belfastinterfaceproject.org/interfaces-map-and-database-overview

For those who might be interested, here is some data about the 99 interfaces in Belfast, now marked by walls but not in the early days of the Troubles. Yes, I'm afraid we are still a divided society.

And yes Fitzy you are correct. The British army were first sent in to protect some of the beleaguered nationalist areas which were surrounded by loyalist areas and subjected to stone throwing and verbal abuse night after night. One of the first areas to be protected was Short Strand a few miles from where I lived at the time. They were initially welcomed with open arms and many a cup of tea, until things went pear shaped.

AB the soldiers referred to who were brutally killed got lost. If you knew anything about Belfast you would realise that it is still very easy to move unwittingly from one political area to another when driving along the myriad and complex interfaces. I used to work across community organisations in Belfast and had various strategies to cope with the vigilance that was maintained in the areas. Knowing a key name to drop if questioned and stopping at the many watching huddles to ask directions and explain my presence there was another. It was very dicey in those days. For soldiers (easily identifiable by their clean cut appearance in the days of long hair and droopy moustaches) off duty it was lethal. What happened to those unfortunate young men was savage mob violence and incited by the shadowy men. No excuse for it at all.

At heart I am a peacemaker and a pacifist. I welcomed the reduction of violence in NI following the implementation of the peace protest - and had strong personal reasons for doing so. Martin McGuinness had a major part to play in bringing about that peace and I applaud that, even though I doubt his intentions were altruistic. However, I am also a believer in justice and I do think that the consequences of wrong/illegal actions should be punishable without fear or favour - it's the view of many people that Martin McGuinness literally got away with murder, therefore it isn't surprising if his death has brought about mixed reactions.

Your anger is understandable, when thstcher died there were people in NI who felt as you do

Now that the cowardly murdering bastard Martin McGuinness is dead, we have to hope that Gerry Adams follows shortly!
Horrible of me to say it, I know, but having lost a good friend to an IRA bomb, I have no sympathy or time for murdering scum!

Paddyann the army went in to protect the Catholics, were welcomed but then it all started to go wrong- and not their fault. You are talking total rubbish

No I know you weren't annie, let's face it it was all SO dreadful that it does evoke strong emotions, and perhaps best left!

British governments have never been perfect , never whiter than white but certainly not evil Jalima, we have had far more honest politicians than dishonest

Niggly, I wasn't defending the attack or excusing it, just posting the truth , it could have been avoided but wasn't and cost them their lives. One was new in Ireland, the driver was showing off, what a heavy price to pay and such a horrific death