Lords revolting about Brexit

I don't think it would be a problem for a Leaver to take EU citizenship, if the terms were right. I could accept the Populist attractions of the EU like ease of travel and a single currency as long as the UK retains its sovereignty.

That would be the sovereignty that T May's A50 white paper said that we had never actually lost?

Oh the irony of it?!!!!!

I hope they charge you a huge administration fee, Cunco!

If it is freely offered, it would be rude not to. I suspect that it won't but these days, who knows?

So you want to have your cake and eat it.

It is early days to talk about EU Citizenship because, as far as I am aware, we don't know if it will be available and on what terms.

For me, the attraction would be to have ease of travel within the EU and if I could have that without accepting onerous terms, it might be worth having, as an added extra. I would not give up UK citizenship for EU citizenship.

I voted to Leave the EU because I have serious concerns about the EU now and in the future, some of which I have indicated above.

Cunco, why would a leaver want to take EU citizenship?
What was the point of Brexit in that case?

petra

I think the Visegrad Group of countries in the EU will probably have to stick together/show strength over Junkers 'resurrection' (if it ever went away) of a ' 2 speed europe'. I don't think they will be alone though!

The Visegrad Group, Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary and Slovakia won't be the only 4 countries in the European Union who
will be concerned at his proposal and the likes of France and Germany 'could' be seen to be too dominating, most see them as being that already and with good reason.

Poland of course fought against the re-election of one of their own countrymen, Donald Tusk as President of the European Council.

The hope of ensuring that democracy is sustained in the UK is why I voted Leave.

Personally, I cannot see how a 2-speed EU can be avoided unless the concept of ever-closer union is abandoned and, with it, its current, incomplete incarnation, the Eurozone. The Eurozone never made sense just as a monetary union, something that has been highlighted by the Credit Crunch.

For all the abuse we Leavers get, I still haven't heard leading Remainers make a convincing, positive case for the EU itself. What would be the UK's future in the EU but outside a core Eurozone? How would we view the EU if a countries like Germany, France or Italy elected a government to the Far Right or Left? Is the Eurozone going to survive without significant further integration?

I don't think it would be a problem for a Leaver to take EU citizenship, if the terms were right. I could accept the Populist attractions of the EU like ease of travel and a single currency as long as the UK retains its sovereignty.

I was pleased to read that Poland have put a spanner in the works Re. the big boys plan for a two speed Europe. Poland are furious and aren't having any of it. The polish prime minister made her feelings known very loud and clear at a meeting of the parliament this evening.

Thanks for the link, POGS.
The rest of the paragraph is important, too, and shows why she wanted to take the government to court over it.
In fact, much more important. She at least has thought about sovereignty.
" GINA MILLER, BUSINESSWOMAN: No. Whilst I voted 'Remain' and was obviously disappointed in the result: in the days after the result, I kept thinking about this idea of sovereignty that we had won back; and the Prime Minister repeating again and again that they were going to use this ancient secretive Royal prerogative to bypass Parliament.

And the sort of pure nonsense of winning back something and then, you know, throwing it away just did not sit well with my conscience. So I started looking into what this Royal prerogative meant.

And basically, in a nut shell, it would mean that a government - any government - can bypass Parliament. And we go back to 19th century politics, because it would set a precedent that a parliament can take away people's rights.

So this case is much, much wider than Brexit. It obviously has connotations for Brexit, but it is about something much more fundamental. It's about making sure that the process of democracy in the UK is sustained. "

Whitewave

" They will reply once A50 has been invoked."

As they have said to Theresa May since the EU Referendum.!

There are plenty of articles and video clips to read and hear her say she voted Remain!

Here is just one (if the link works)

www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2016/s4569547.htm

Extract

GINA MILLER, BUSINESSWOMAN: " No. Whilst I voted 'Remain' and was obviously disappointed in the result".

-

Haven't seen anywhere where it says she voted either way. In fact I have seen that she said she is neither a remainer or a leaver.
Can anyone show me where she said she voted to remain?

Mind you

Sorry I take it you are correct re Gina Miller. I could have sworn I saw her on television saying she voted leave.

The EU commission has responded to my email. They will reply once A50 has been invoked. So be interesting to see what they say.

Must you I would have to tip a grin if any Brexiters applied.

I can see it all getting very messy though.

Whitewave.

You are incorrect in saying Gina Miller voted 'Leave'.

Gina Miller has openly declared she voted 'Remain'.

The 3million EU residents living here did not have a vote either, although they are obviously greatly affected by the outcome.

The person who suggested that British people could apply individually to keep their EU status is Guy Verhofstadt. He put this idea to some of the pro remain groups and the EU a few months ago and asked if we would be interested. Many people have written to him on an individual basis and told him of their personal position that leaving the EU will put them in. He has answered many many of them and the people have posted their message to him and his reply. He is the one person who has stood up since last June saying that the 48% must not be forgotten - and of course it is far more than 48% if you count in all the people in Europe who were denied a vote or who had voting papers delayed.
I am keeping a keen eye on this and whatever the level of citizenship is offered we shall both likely be applying and I shall encourage my family to do the same. We are just sorting out the paperwork to apply for a Carte de Séjour here in France.

Yes, where is your evidence that Gina Millar voted to Leave, whitewave? I can't find any.

Whitewave: Gina Miller voted Leave? The BBC profile of Gina Miller says:

Asked whether she was "a remainer to your boots", she told BBC's Andrew Marr Show she had campaigned for "remain, reform and review" during the referendum.

If the EU had shown a real interest in reform over the last 40 years, we might well not be leaving it now. As Ken Clarke has said, everyone talks about reform but there is no consensus and even if there was, it could take 9 years to renegotiate a new treaty. Serious reform was not on the agenda before the Referendum. Reform has reportedly been discussed in Brussels since the Referendum but is it serious?

I am not sure Leavers would necessarily not apply to have the benefits of EU membership. It would depend on what it meant, what it would require and how much it would cost. Of course, it would also depend on what the EU turns out to be.

Theresa May should be grateful for Gina Miller and the House of Lords for delaying article 50.

www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/government-does-not-have-enough-experts-in-place-for-brexit-deal-a3486401.html

Not that all lords are on the side of Gina Miller, who, by the way, definitely believes in parliamentary democracy.

uk.businessinsider.com/lord-charged-alleged-racial-abuse-gina-miller-2017-3

I have also contacted Brussells directly and asked the question. Others may like to do the same.

Whether she does or doesn't her actions made this government understand that they can't ignore the fact that this is representative democracy. The Lords have been reminding them again this week. I have written to my MP requesting and more information he may have.

There will be millions of remainers interested in the possibility. We shall have to see.

Gina Miller doesn't give a fig about democracy/Parliament, she wanted us to stay in the single market.For business reasons.She is incredibly wealthy.