Article 50

It may have been 'said. It's also possible more would vote to leave now rather than to remain - I've heard that said too.

They don't have to ride roughshod over the will of 52% of those who voted. Changing a couple of things that the Tories want to change anyway would show that the Tory government is not riding roughshod over 48% of those who voted.
It has now been said that many people would have voted differently if they knew then what they know now.
The leaders of the Brexit campaign have ignored the 48%. Hopefully the Lords will not.

No, am not sure about it at all, ( the Lords) but think that they will take the intent of the HOC into consideration.They may not be scared of the will of the people but they would be damn arrogant to ride roughshod over it.

I hope they back the amendment on EU citizens, just to show they have some power, and on workers rights.

I wouldn't be too sure of that, roses. The Lords are far more independent of 'party' (even though most of them belong to one party or another) and don't have a whip. They will not try to block A50 but they may well ask for amendments to the A50 Bill before they pass it. And as they're not scared of 'the will of the people' they won't cave in as easily as MPs did.

Getting back to article 50..... I think the Lords will not try to hold things up now ( I did think so up to now) they have seen that the two votes in the House Of Commons have passed it overwhelmingly.So, maybe things will be on track for the end of next month as the government wants.

Just started his "coming of the third reich"! Page 6 - extremely readable

He might be retired now, but Richard Evans used to be a professor at Cambridge. He was no ivory tower academic, but used to do lectures open to the public. He's also written numerous books about Hitler and his rise to power. He and another historian, Ian Kershaw, destroyed the myth that Germans were all evil supporters of Nazism, which was the prevalent view immediately after WW2. By laborious study of original sources and interviews, they showed that Germans were just ordinary people with normal concerns about their country, their lives, their future, etc. - just like people today.

I think it probably is DD - it was in the Slate - not a pub. I had heard of before but the way it was written I thought it sounded right.

Was it this article Welshwife?

www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/interrogation/2017/02/historian_richard_evans_says_trump_s_america_isn_t_exactly_like_the_third.html

I have heard Richard Evans speaking a couple of times. He is excellent and can see very clearly the similarities between 1930s Europe, especially Germany, and what's happening today.

I found it interesting the way the article went through all the points logically and chronologically.
Another point is that all the Brexiteers were shouting all the time - anything else being said and they just shouted everyone down -- they are still doing this each week on QT and David Dimbleby is no good whatsoever in keeping them in order - last week was absolutely dreadful - most people acted as if they had never been taught any manners. I thought Billy Bragg showed the most restraint and manners! He has also written a good piece about the situation we now find ourselves in.
This morning I have read an interview with Richard Evans who was the main witness in the holocaust denial trial - when reading it I could not but relate much of what he said to what is happening in UK now.

Some of them even have gold-plated lifts!

Surely everyone lives their lives? Who doesn't? Even people in tower blocks ? Weird or what?

Maybe saak should request a meeting with AC Grayling (the writer of the article) on the topic of 'real life'. It could be quite illuminating.

Does that mean you live/love in a tower block in inner London? Can't work it out as so few 'out' voters live here - only know one.
Finding your posts difficult to decipher so perhaps it's time to put away the ? and head for bed.

What do you mean by high tower crap??
More high rise blocks in Central London than out in the sticks.
Or did you mean "ivory tower"?
If so, why not say so?

Just as reassuring to know that the out voters mostly came from a place of a "living" it kind of knowledge rather than high tower crap

Reassuring to know that vociferous 'out' voters did their research and voted from a position of knowledge and informed objectivity!
Or is it from a position of 'coz I say so' ??

err, i didn't buy it either. It's a work computer. Hate the bloody thing too.

i love a working class life in the heart of london,
I'm quite enjoying being retired, but I loved my work too.

Is that what Jalima stands for?

I don't have an Apple, can't afford it, so can't blame that for my mistakes.

Night night, just posting a selfie before I go

Freudian slip there? Gives the lie, not Goves.

Even the idea of taking back our sovereignty was a lie.

'The White Paper itself exposes the egregious lie about sovereignty. It says – and this should make any sane person weep, in light of the “take back control” nonsense of the Leave campaign – “The sovereignty of Parliament is a fundamental principle of the UK constitution. Whilst Parliament has remained sovereign throughout our membership of the EU, it has not always felt like that” (section 2.1 Cm 9417).'

It says so in the white paper. What lies Brexiters voted for!