UKIP leader

Jumping off a cliff would be an alternative! Going to sea in a sieve would be an alternative!

Sorry, but I don't think they're that stupid. However, some are being conned, if they 'new' would be better.

There is potential danger.
I would have thought though, that as long as the UK remains relatively wealthy, UKIP will be unable to do too much damage.

dd Not being a UKIP supporter I have no idea what they have to offer but shouldn't we be asking why are not the main political parties listening to the people and offering them alternatives to the same old promises which are never kept.

Quite daphnedill. You make my point well!

The Nazis were new!!!

I hope you're not being serious, Ankers.

UKIP could be seen as new?

I remember watching a programme once, where the lady who worked in a shop, said regarding new lines of stock, "we like new".

Labour and liberal may be seen as tried before?

sunseeker I get that, but my question again is what is UKIP actually offering?

In my opinion, it often isnt a protest vote against whoever. It is a running away from, to hopefully perhaps something better.

It is the hope element.

And also hoping that other parties take notice that they didnt like the status quo very much.

I think what we need to look at what would the good people of Stoke be getting if the voted for Nuttall. Would you wish that on them? Isn't a labour or liberal candidate a better bet? Rise above the leadership debate, and think what Stoke needs.

Anniebach I understand what you're saying - and have been saying for months. I don't know why you chose to pick on me. I'm not disagreeing with you about Corbyn. I think he's a wally, who couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag.

However, this thread is about UKIP. What do you think UKIP can offer to the people of Stoke and other run-down areas? Let's turn this round and look for positives.

What would you say if you were canvassing in Stoke and Labour had a leader you liked?

I don't need to knock on doors to know what Stoke really needs.

Anniebach I doubt if the majority are rifling through the media to find his views on abortion, but it was Nuttall himself who chose to write about his views in the Catholic press. Many of the workers in the potteries came from Ireland and Stoke still has quite a high percentage of Catholics.

As I'm sure you know, Nuttall comes from Bootle, where there is a huge Catholic community - mainly descended from poor Irish. His appeal is to the poor and downtrodden. He is playing his Catholicism for all its worth. In Liverpool, there are still some sectarian differences based on religion. I don't know whether that will matter in Stoke, but Nuttall is giving it a go.

daph thanks for that. I thought it was me. Their web site is simply a load of garbled rubbish.

So in the absence of any manifesto, we have to try to understand what UKIP stands for from past publications and utterances

For NHS privatisation
For Fox/stag hunting
For death penalty
For Putin and the bombing of Syria
For the legalisation of drugs and prostitution
For reducing tax of the wealthy
For reducing regulation in the city
For restricting abortion and family planning
For Trump
For the right to be able to make sexist remarks
For restricting immigration

Against
Against Wind farms
Against Fair trade
Against Overseas aid
Against Barnet formula
Against Burka
Against Smoking ban
Against cultural and religious freedom for all but Christianity.
Against LGBT rights
Against travellers
Against the EU

Denies climate change
Questions Obamas heritage

None of this of course makes for what is generally accepted as having the ability to run a country. It is hollow. It is populist politics. It is divisive politics

I did not say they did not care, I doubt he is knocking doors and rabbiting on about his views on abortion and I doubt the majority of the people are googling like crazy to read what he has said in the past or are interested in the fsck he is RC .

I think the people in Stoke , like me, want a leader of the Labour Party with guts,

Over and over people are interviewed and bring up immigration, Diane Abbott has now written an article on the benefits of immigration , Corbyn does not give a toss, people want either a stop to immigration or controlled immigration, this is what UKIP is canvassing on, they did it in Wales. People are fearful , we have a lunatic in the White House, the far right strengthening in Europe , we are being smothered in fear.

No, I don't think voters in Stoke will agonise over their MP's views on abortion, although some possibly will. I think you're being very patronising to think they don't care, just because there are more pressing economic issues.

Nuttall has already appealed to Catholic voters through the Catholic media, so he's prepared to use it as a political football. I am very concerned about the global trend regarding women's rights. Nuttall is as zealous as any mid West US fundamentalist.

UKIP has nothing to say on the economy or regeneration of deprived areas.

Nuttall may be denying his advocacy of NHS privatisation but it is here in black and white although it has been erased from his web site, presumably because he has realised it might not be a vote winner.

Anniebach You have taken what I wrote out of context and cherry picked what I have written. My immediate family didn't work their way up - my ancestors did. My mother was/is a Nazi sympathiser. My father was an upper middle class alcoholic. What the hell does that have to do with my values? Would you be less critical if I'd followed in my parents' footsteps? I don't do class warfare.

You have no idea what work I have done in the community over the years or the people, whose views I've listened to and tried to represent.

I'd be delighted if the Libs climb back, but I doubt if they will in Stoke. It's going to be a two horse race, with probably some tactical voting. Over half of the electorate didn't vote in the last election, so there's a huge group of people to be persuaded.

The choice in Stoke isn't between Corbyn and May. It's between Labour and UKIP.

No, I don't think there is one, ww. I've looked in the past, but their method seems to be to produce them only for elections. They then say what people want to hear and remove old ones from their website. There are some sites, which have been collecting them over the yeasr.

I agree with you about UKIP in general, and Nuttall in particular. People are encouraged to vote against the status quo and hated groups, but there is no clear message about what people are voting for, which is futile, if not dangerous.

That's why I really would like to know whether Labour deserters to UKIP have really thought through the possible outcomes of their vote. I would like to see how UKIP proposes to help Stoke (and places like it) in a positive way.

And Daphne, think of their choices, May or Corbyn , I still believe the Libs will climb back

I haven't had time to post on this. daph can you find a UKIP manifesto anywhere? Not absolutely sure what people are voting for if they vote for Nuttall. Apart from what he has said in the past. The privatisation of the NHS figures very large. Although he of course is denying it now as he knows it won't win him any votes.

Not al all rude Daphne, and some time ago you shared. Your views on the working classes , not doing as your fsmily did and working their way. Up and out.

Do you really believe voters in Stoke are going to agonise over his views on abortion?

If I have the wrong poster thrn forgive me, was it not you wwho said you lived in a very wealthy area in the UK. ?

How rude, Annie! How do you know I haven't?

I know for an absolute fact what the concerns of voters round here are...and they're not the same as the people in Stoke or any other run-down town.

sunseeker I get that, but my question again is what is UKIP actually offering?

Anniebach I get that too, which is why other parties need to acknowledge the fear and do some serious work on dispelling the myths.

There are places where rapid immigration has had an effect, but Stoke isn't one of them. What it has had is other councils dumping benefit claimants on it.

Stoke's problems have been caused by the collapse of local industries and austerity. UKIP would do nothing to address those.

Maybe Osborne could take up the cause, as Heseltine did for Liverpool. Yeah...and maybe pigs will fly! But UKIP isn't the answer.

Daphne, I recall quite a while ago I suggested you get to the office of the party you support and get on the telephone, walk the streets, wotk for hours every week speaking to voters , if you ,is ten to them and spent less time sitting trying to get into their minds you may find answers to your own questions.

There are two (slightly) separate issues with him. He's a practising Catholic and his social views are anti-abortion and anti-LGBT. There will, of course, be some voters who object to the social liberalism of the other parties and will vote for him on that basis. He exploits the anti 'metropolitan elite' agenda to the full.

Secondly, he was originally a Conservative, who doesn't think that the Conservatives are right-wing enough. He's 'small state', wants to cut benefits and tax for the wealthy. He's against increasing council tax to fund social care and is on record as saying that he wants further privatisation for the NHS. Places like Stoke need regeneration, but UKIP has nothing to say on economic and industrial policy.